Hello everyone this is adam meister the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister welcome to this week in bitcoin today is May the 10th 2019 strong hand offended by selling beer unique beasts this is an anti flood Friday now your wealth and bitcoin uncomplicated all right special guest simon dixon this year on this week in bitcoin he's we're gonna review like the last month basically there were so many stories and we're gonna get his unique take on everything Simon welcome to the show thanks for having me Adam I don't even know if we could review a month you ain't need a couple of days in crypto and you've got enough content very true I as the world turns its it's a soap opera here sometimes so many different stories but let's start with this one tweet that will shock some people because it's from someone that people it's for Vinny lingham if Bitcoin can hold the $6,200 level for the next 24 to 48 hours then the bear market is officially over and I'm going to become a raging bull that's for vini lingham he's about to become a raging bull apparently now I don't care about the Fiat price but I am the reason I bring this up is because the vibe the crypto vibe that has been out there we've we've encountered some stories that were flood related stories there was a hack there was the tether stuff and he can't bring Bitcoin down and I have heard and again I'm that's why I bring this up to you the vibe has change it seems like people who were bear seemed the beginning bullish what's your take have you you talked to a lot of people has the vibe changed I think everybody's optimistic but they're also scared because they've been optimistic a few times for the last year and a half and they've got bird so you know those trying to forecast the short-term price there quietly you know they love it too content but they don't wanna get egg on their face again because for many people this bear market went on for a lot longer than they thought it would be for others it was in line with expectations many lingams an interesting one because Vinnie lingham has always been ultra conservative I think one of you know he's had some really good calls in the past but one of his very famous calls was to sell Bitcoin at $1,000 just before the twenty thousand dollar run Vinnie Vinnie is a nautical Bitcoin er he's recently you know had some controversial views but he always says what he thinks it is and if he's saying that he thinks we're headed to a bull market if we can hold this for the next 24 to 48 hours no wait a second a reason why we shouldn't be in a bull market really we've had the extended bear market the more we're getting about yeah you have a little bit of bear canet we the last 30 seconds of your beautiful speech got it cut off there basically okay yeah we would try again and say yeah there's no reason why we shouldn't be moving into a bear market sorry a bull market now I guess we're so used to the bear market but I think there's been a lot of compilation a lot of the crap has left the industry I'm sorry to see a lot of the crack come back to the industry I got my first email for a long time pitching some new icos and I guess that's kind of a sign that people that everything's coming back we had the OEE who the exchanges the crypto decrypt those changes try and turn around the market with ayios as well and Bitcoin seems to be leading the market again and everything seems to follow Bitcoin it'll be interesting to see what happens next whether people start thumping alternatives not to go into Bitcoin or whether people start feeling richer as a result of Bitcoin going up and lot start to speculate in gaming alternatives I know some people are waiting for they don't believe that the bull market is here until Bitcoin goes up and everything else goes down but I think we're gonna we're in a correlated market where everything's going to be together with bitcoin leading the way as the as the leader as the world reserve currency currency for all other cryptocurrencies do you even follow the Bitcoin dominance I just noticed today that whoa it's getting close to 60% that's interesting though I haven't really been following that because it's it's it's a it's a silly figure for me to follow because you know bitcoin is the is the only one is the only game in town for being you know sound muddy and every single day especially with things like security tokens coming along we're going to be adding thousands and thousands and thousands of different asset classes to this industry as everything gets tokenized and it's really silly thing to do to compare this ever-increasing you know basket of different assets that going to be tokenized in the future to the you know the world was of cryptocurrency of cryptocurrencies it doesn't really matter because anyone can create a token and they can print billions and billions of them and if it's long as it's got a price then that's gonna decrease the Bitcoin dominance just by adding loads and loads of tokens so it's it really is it really is a silly number but it gives people some interesting thoughts and it's good to see you know if you were just comparing crypto currencies then fine but when your when when coin market cap consists of all this basket of different things it's a it's a pretty meaningless figure yeah someone asked me the other day they're like what Dora the next bull run well Bitcoin returned to 80% dominance and I said no just just because what you just said as long as they list every ieo iceo ee-i-ee-i-o on there it's going to water down the what is really a coin and what is not again it's the world reserve crypto it's it's on a whole different level I can't want your take on ayios though just a flash in the pan or will this that will that trend grow well again it goes back to the old security versus utility token argument the argument hasn't been resolved I guess in the us
they've made it a lot clearer the s-e-c has reached our clear guidelines on what is a security and what isn't a security but still some murky water there as more of these things that look like securities are also being used for payments and various other things so the ieo is just essentially a rebrand of the ICO but you don't have to cover the marketing costs because the exchange will just do it for you and I guess it's the exchanges attempt to revive the market and you know get back to some of those ultra profitable ultra high returns I think it's a I guess you move the ability for individuals to scam to the exchange to use market manipulation and behavior and we'll see who the who the exchanges are that do things in a fair way do proper due diligence and I guess they're moving closer and closer to enforcement action and securities laws as they move more and more into these markets but it's a it's a it's another interesting friend it's another way of getting a new token out there but it's subject to a lot more manipulation because even on these you you're you know you're you're subject to a toke people buying a token with another token and all the manipulation that can happen in trying to price it you know the the an investment bank is not normally the say in the industry additional market the investment bank is not normally there's the the stock exchange as well and not the broker as well but in the ohio market you have all three being one centralized counterparty as well found that like button everyone remember new show every day here this weekend Bitcoin every friday simons info is below everything is linked to below well I want to go back to ayios again because it appears to me it's a way for some of these exchanges to I mean increase their wealth basically they they saw that old trend of I SEOs why not rebrand it and get some up get that a huge cut a huge cut out of this the the next bull market and it's it's uh some of these exchanges they seem like they they want a pout they well they've got some interest use and interesting views on power in the space and that I bring III bring that up because of what's happened at finance now finance got hacked we'll talk specifically about the hack but I want to bring up like what the the guy in charge of Finance he said he seriously was considering a rollback as and thought that that was actually possible and I'm glad lesson we learned is that there at least in Bitcoin you don't have a powerful entity that just can command they can just do that but what was your take on that firstly you know by Nansen cz I think up up to now like CZ has been a good part of the crypto community he tends to try and do right by his customers he tends to go on the cutting edge of the gray markets and push the boundaries a lot and but in this instance I'm either going to put it down to the fact that he was up for probably over 48 hours or 29 hours or something I'm trying to recover and make sense of the hack situation and I've had a momentary you know lapse and of craziness and insanity or he just genuinely doesn't understand Bitcoin which I find hard to believe as somebody that is such a you know a crypto ambassador and has been around for a while before by Nancy was a ok X and other exchanges but to think that it was even a sensible thing to explore that you can react the Bitcoin blockchain one you know kind of what we just if it was possible to do that so then you know it would completely diminish the value that we know Bitcoin has and secondly you know I don't know I don't know what was going through his mind you know why he did actually contact Geon woo and other people to find out if he could get enough hash power to actually react the chain we would take the entire Bitcoin and crypto market down with it if it was possible with finance it seems like I just want to put it down to a moment of insanity in an incredibly high pressured situation where he was suffering from a lack of sleep and that cut off some oxygen to his brain that's the only way I can explain it because I don't think he's a he's adding her into me that that's not not a good idea or not possible Wow Wow well I will say this people tried to jump on that flood but it didn't Bitcoin just laughed it off and yeah it you know back hey if we would have done this show of three years ago and said like the one of the biggest exchanges just got hacked I mean everyone would be in panic mode it's just I think a positive take from this story is how the space has matured and that way we've had fun Fridays in the past and now this is an anti fun Friday III I mean there will be big stories in the future but will they be able to take the Bitcoin price down as much as in the past what's what's your take on the maturation of the market yeah I mean what we're seeing right now and a real positive step forward this is a Bitcoin is bigger than exchanges you know we started this industry where you know man Cox was bigger than Bitcoin and over time we've we've proven time and time again no matter how good no matter how meticulous you know there's only I guess there's one there's one exchange left that hasn't been hacked at to this stage which is coinbase but no matter how far you go no matter how good you are you know putting together that amount of money in cryptocurrency it's just an extremely hard challenge to secure but the good thing is is that by finance currently by volume is the largest cryptocurrency exchange in the world they just got hacked you know I hope they get recovered I you know they they had a conservative approach of putting money aside so that they could cover it so it's it to the company rather than compositors or the exchange customers so that's a that's a good thing you know only I'm and sorry for your losses finance I don't wish out upon anybody but the good thing is that Bitcoin is totally bigger than the largest cryptocurrency exchange in the world right now because you know the top two you once have had some extremely challenging times over the last week or so and Bitcoin continues to just fight it off and continue and is not correlated to the news of what is happening within these exchanges I think there's a few reasons for it one we've got the next generation of exchanges which traditional financial institutions which will have you know very high fiduciary responsibilities in terms of securing assets to the next level and also just in general a lot of a lot more people having learned a lesson that you shouldn't be storing your cryptocurrency on exchanges and also the fact that we just you know we seem to be having I mean the amount of good news that we've had in terms of technological development institutional development partnerships people using cryptocurrency people using Bitcoin over during this bear market and none of that has really you know pushed the price out of the out of the bull market there's just a tremendous amount of news and progress it's just not factored into the price at this stage that people will start to realize I guess when it hit me when it hits new highs and starts pushing about the twenty thousand when people will start looking at this again well I will say this you we were talking the show you're talking about you were talk about the length of the bear market and you know now we're again I don't like to talk about the up prices but we're on the other side of 6,000 now and I it was just less than six months ago just less than six months Bitcoin went below 6,000 so I mean it's not that for me I obviously do nothing I just store my bitcoins no big deal yeah and back in November it was 6,000 it's still 6,000 today and just the mistakes that people could made made in between yeah the interesting thing is if you took what if you look what drove Bitcoin below 6,000 the last time was Craig Wright coming out threatening to real the Bitcoin cash blockchain and perform a 51% attack and creating you know a scenario that crashed the Bitcoin market because there was so much fear fire and uncertainty around that now somebody else comes along and does it who has a lot more power and a lot more influence like the largest cryptocurrency exchange in the world and then said that they're gonna see if they can do that a Bitcoin after a hack and Bitcoin just pushes past 6,000 so it's really interesting that this 6,000 level seems to be coming around threats of people that claim to either create Bitcoin or be in exchange that has more power than Bitcoin and seems to be marking these price points um going back to that uh November incident I I thought that might it played a role in sparking the the price going down but I mean how big of a role do you think that really played I mean in the law I mean it didn't keep the price down for that long because of him creating that but I think he I think it was a very opportune moment to and I don't know if he planned it that way either it was an opportune moment to bring out but if he wanted to bring down Bitcoin I think it was gonna go down anyway this the overall vibe I mean do you think it was that big of an event I think yeah I think I got a lot of attention from ignorant people and mainstream media that where people you know you wouldn't even remember people aren't day in day out understanding the difference between these cryptocurrencies you know when someone comes out that allegedly is the creator of Bitcoin and says the you know the allegedly has over a million Bitcoin and is gonna real the chain even though it was Bitcoin cash and Bitcoin as we and things completely unrelated to Bitcoin I think the average person trying to deconstruct what that actually means led to a media frenzy of ignorant people that are already paying because they might have bought Bitcoin a lot significantly higher price wanting to say hey you know a capitulation stage essentially where mass selling from people that are on exchanges not the not the Hodler of last resort the ones that are holding it on there called wallets no matter what that are following this day in day out and but the people on the changes and are actually you know the price that's determined by people buying and selling on exchanges you know there's a lot of ignorance out there and I think it was just really the capitulation event of you know is Bitcoin there this Bitcoin over I'll break this this alleged founder of Bitcoin is now creating this thing that's gonna completely kill some or some alternative chain that's also called Bitcoin just creates this mass confusion of affecting the price at the exchanges now let's talk about some off this is the OPCON section this show now that that dude was brought up and we're gonna bring up something specific about that guy in a second but uh do you think you know the hackers of the world it seems like they caught on that if they're gonna hack an exchange you get Bitcoin because it can't be reorg do you think in the future that uh all coins will be hacked from exchanges then it'll be worth a hackers time because most likely something I mean now that it's out in the open some of those all coins might just uh they'll always be the threat that they could be reorg and the hacker could have his uh his funds uh taken back from him what do you see the future of a crypto hacks very interesting hadn't even thought about that process but yeah I mean it seems like people are you know if it might even occur you know the game with hacking was always even if you're even if you're hacking an altcoin you're still going to try and get it to Bitcoin and you know in the end anyway and then they've got to try and figure out how to get that Bitcoin into what they can spend and say it's uh it's you know it's a it's an interesting game you know half of the game is hacking the Bitcoin in the first place but then trying to move that from a wallet and figure out how to get it out and do something with it I'm just becoming increasingly more challenged so you know all the ends are doing is is taking Bitcoin out of the supply and making it more rare and more scarce which eventually once people realize is that they're just taking pick one out of the supply because you know people are really analyzing he's changed now and trying to get those those hacked bitcoins you know through an exchange which is under increasing regulatory pressure and a getting smarter and smarter and using more and more tools in order to actually identify stuff in these thefts it is becoming a really really hard challenge and many of the major hacks the coins are still there with you know no one able to do anything with them here's here's a question about the finance hacks specifically and from from what you've heard and I just want to I mean maybe this is not gonna clear everything up there are a few people there like it must have been an inside job what have you do you think it wasn't inside job well an inside job kind of comes to a couple of accusations the first accusation is the people at the top the only and operate the exchange then maybe they you know do an inside job I find that highly implausible I've got no reason to believe that sees ed and and the team at finance and nothing but trying to do right by their customers if you're in that bigger game then it's really really a crazy strategy to try and you know you know buy taxes on on a huge growth path to to kill the the golden egg you know is is a little bit crazy but then there is the fact that a company you know has to employ and especially when they get as big as a company like finance you know hundreds and hundreds of staff and those hundreds and hundreds of staff are very very you know it's increasingly harder to actually surveil those staff and you could end up hiring a bad actor and a bad actor could sell some data and so it really comes down to their operational procedures and security procedures on exactly how they onboard new staff which which people have access to which information is an incredibly challenging thing you know operationally especially if you start an engine 2017 and grew to be one of the largest crypto currency exchanges in the world especially during renze bull market like 2017 you know it's a very very hard thing to do so an inside job can happen from the top or within I find it implausible the in by Nance that it would happen at the top very possible that something can happen in the middle level cooperating with a hacker you know that's a very challenging thing to to prevent I'm really the only way to solve these things is for us to develop the this industry to the next stage where these are you know non-custodial exchanges in the future and by NASA is already on that path to creating a decentralized exchange and doing this in a noncustodial way so we don't have to put that responsibility on some of these centralized exchanges yeah I I just want to make it clear a high level inside job that's like as an exit scam no way that's happening here I was I thought like what you basically said they have so many low-level employees why wouldn't one make a deal with a hacker and give out some information and what you just said again should be a reminder to everyone um you know who thinks coinbase is so safe I'm sure coinbase is so safe but wait how about if they did hire a guy who had some long term thinking is like I'm gonna work here for a year I'm gonna collaborate with someone on the outside and you know after a year or so I'm gonna know the inner workings and we're gonna we're gonna rip this place off and we're gonna move to Eastern Europe and they'll never be able to catch us I mean that seems like a legitimate threat and ii8 to trust coinbase to do a background check that will eliminate the possibility of that I mean that's that's a lot of trust right there and that's not what crypto is about so uh just just a reminder out there did lo I mean there's really no way to stop a determined a very determined low-level inside job or a from doing something like this so it's I'm glad you brought up the difference between a high level a low level with that so I want to also read from the super chat Colonel Swan jr said Bitcoin the blocks keep coming Thank You Colonel Swan jr for the super chat for the donation I appreciate the ten bucks and here Molotov cocktails cents three bucks thank you much she says insert Jack Nicholson laughs Jack Nicholson nodding meme yeah that's a good time to do that that's a good picture of him I've seen that floating around all right uh all right let's talk about real real fast since you brought it up Simon well you didn't bring this specific thing up but but this week I guess in the last two days Jameson lop came out with a expose about the guy who claims he is Satoshi did you have any thoughts on that Oh fill me and it's been such a crazy week that's good you haven't heard of it that makes me happy that I mean it's old BitFenix to the tether thing or we were just more I don't want to give the guy any more attention that's it it's just uh just just more evidence that he's not who he says he is it's it's become yeah I just wonder why people and maybe you can maybe you have some experience with human psychology why there's still people out there that want to believe that this person is to chose to Satoshi Nakamoto well there's no doubt that you know it's an interesting one because there's no doubt in my mind that he was around at the beginning and so whether he was a tea boy you know that was around at the beginning you know but there's there's really good evidence that he was around and he's been around for a long time now combine that with narcissism and sociopathic tendencies and you get the current situation it was really funny I did what sure I I try not to indulge myself in soap operas and in the UK we've got something called EastEnders and Coronation Street that's what I see this whole craig white sagar is you can't help being guy intrigued by it and if you want a bit of entertainment then you indulge yourself every now and then but I watched one on quinn geek with calvin air giving you know his video he just released an interview and it is just fascinating how people you know getting around this this it's belief I guess that and the importance that they're pacing on on him being Satoshi it's just it is soap opera you know it's it's just a bit of entertainment on the side it doesn't matter bitcoin still continues we just have this this this constant interesting thing I think the latest is he is trying to use the court cases in order to prove for the ears Satoshi by getting a court judgment to prove for the years and that was the whole point that the legal cases so let's let's see what comes with yeah yeah it did so Jameson Locke did an expose if you want to waste a few moments of your life reading that and get a little bit of an entertainment hit do so but no rush because as you said you are a very busy man and you have been dealing with a lot so let's hear about this bit finnex stuff I think you were referring to that I assume yes so I'm alright whether you know the story with BitFenix BitFenix is obviously the the world's crypto favorite company to attack whether it be from regulators or whether it be from people trying to understand it a bit more but you know I I was I was on CNBC yesterday or the other night and you know they were asking me for the perspective of as I've said that previously I've disclosed from your previous show Adam I am a shareholder I thank to the Future comm we create a market where people can buy and sell shares in large companies in bits and bits in excess one of those companies so we had a lot of speculation on the price of bit finicky shares over the last week which you know really has been been getting a lot of increasing attention so the story is that you know BitFenix was one of the most liquid and still is US dollar to Bitcoin exchanges and several years back Wells Fargo took it upon itself to attacks not BitFenix itself but the counterparty banks that were servicing BitFenix and try and exercise influence over the US dollar because tether was starting to become increasingly more important and you know in competing with people converting their cryptocurrency into dollar and they were just staying in it with tether and so they decided to attack some of the Taiwanese banks that were servicing BitFenix and allowing for a non-us model to exist where the founders of bitch and X are you know from all my experiences of knowing them they are very idealistic in terms of Bitcoin principles and privacy and they do not put one they don't want to exercise one more bit of compliance above what they have to in the jurisdiction that they live and because of that they're a constant target by banks and financial institutions and people that don't want business to be going outside the US particularly when it's denominated in the dollar so they end up in a scenario where they're playing you know catch catch the hot potato with billions and billions of dollars all these crypto to crypto exchanges become huge really really fast finance becomes huge not you know because they are relying upon BitFenix to service all of their deposits because they use tether instead of having to get a bank account and you know meet all the demands of bankers so BitFenix through tether became essentially the outsource to bank account to all of the crypto to crypto exchanges and tether went from from billions to billions and now once a bank says that you need to move your deposits because Wells Fargo and the Fed the threatening to remove US dollar clearing and exercising their influence over Taiwanese banks then it's quite hard to move four billion dollars so the you know they've had to go through this game of trying to get Manx a willing to take such a model on in an incredibly threatening environment and you know one of their last solutions was that they managed to find a bank that would Park all the money that wasn't the Mon deed for deposits and withdrawals and find the payment processor that had good technology whereby you could process deposits and withdrawals in a foster environment many of the exchanges were using the same payment process but one of the us banks decided to actually start servicing companies like cracker mm coinbase and all the other exchanges but they don't want to service non-us based exchanges that don't necessarily adhere to every single regulation that the u
s puts a crypto exchange under and doesn't allow for some additional protections of privacy in the crypt data crypto sphere and so because of this they end up in this scenario where they had to put the equivalent of their remember in in cryptocurrency world you exchanges have hot wallets and cold wallets when you're the banker of all of the crypto currency exchanges which tether was through all of these exchanges came through because of tether they have to use a payment processor that has good technology and it turned out that that payment processor was a company called crypto capital and that correct dough capital is allegedly you know pocketing some of the money or has had some of the money seized because they haven't followed correct kyc or payment you know procedures and by you know part of it allegedly is the US government some several government sees the money and BitFenix finds itself in in a scenario where you know because of this scenario because of all this and they've got a plug in 850 million dollar gap because the government has seized some funds and you know remember about 700 million of this of tether is is held in by Naxos wallet and so a big chunk of that is is you know all of these companies are grown because they outsource their banking to each other and this is you know it's a it's as usual BitFenix use some financial engineering in order to try and stay keep the system going when and you know they were approached by the New York Attorney General's Office and they said that they shared all the information and in the New York Attorney General's Office use that information against them in what looks like another attack against the the tetherin crypto market this creates a massive massive knock-on effect where they had to you know the money's you know is they're half in crypto capital has been seized by a government and so they have to do a financial engineering in order to fulfill the deposits and withdrawals and you know this this whole city this whole saga continues now in order to get out of this situation they had they launched a token and they raised a you know they're in the process of raising a billion dollars from big fans want to see the belief in the utility of tether particularly in areas like China and Asia where they really appreciate the ability to hold some of their funds in US dollars without having to have a US dollar account and they're particularly interested in funding and keeping you know plugging yes and so they created token and now we're in the situation what we're trying to figure out to capital what the you know what's happened to them and there's some systemic risk on that because all the crypto and crypto exchange is relying upon tether for their growth and but the funds are you know allegedly there and they're just waiting to be returned and then when those funds are returns the token can be bought back and they have no choice but to use them some you know token ecosystem in order to meet the demands of depositors and withdrawals and keep the system you know keep keep everything going so it's a it's an incredibly interesting story but it highlights one thing really to me and that is that the issue is a banking issue and we have issues with the banking system s exact reason why Bitcoin was created and BitFenix from my perspective have always been a team of people that do whatever they can to service their customers to not go over compliant and keep some of the principles a Bitcoin to live in a centralized environment when people want to exchange dollars for tether sorry dollars for Bitcoin and trades when this in that constant intersection between the fiat world and the crypto world now there's the story people it is just one exchange it didn't bring down Bitcoin and yeah this is the problem it exposes or reminds us of the problems of the banking system and why we're in crypto to begin with now you bring up the New York Attorney General's Office I've got questions about that I mean what is this a witch-hunt are they doing this for other entities for competing banks for what I'm not a fan of New York Attorney General's Office it seems like they're a very vindictive outfit and they go after entities and people they don't like and that's not what justice is that's not what the law is supposed to be about it's not supposed to be about I don't I'm doing a favor for someone because I my friend doesn't like this entity what do you think's going on over there or do you have any thoughts I have my own thoughts you know a speculation I've got no evidence around this but it wouldn't be out to the world to concede that New York represents Wall Street tether is the antithesis of Wall Street and the US you know they you know the US has come around to the fact that crypto is going to be huge you know we've already sizing the next thing you're talking about some comments around politicians and MPs that MPs Congress people in in the states that that you know recognizing the threat that Bitcoin has and then stable coins along and produce another threat and that needs to stay in the US they want all that to be done in the US by Wall Street they want JP Morgan coin they want fed coin they want Bitcoin to be something that is controlled within their borders they recognize that they can't take it down anymore and one of the threats to to you know to the dominance that they would like to exercise and the influence they would like to exercise is taking down anything outside the US and to me it seems like there this is not just about consumer protection you can take either sides there is a there is a case for how they were trying to you know protect consumers nobody's investing in tether there is no investor protection it was people that we using tether so that's consumer protection which is different to securities laws and what they were you know we're trying to influence and about disclosures and things but to me it certainly seems like a government a group of government institutions seized some funds they asked BitFenix to cooperate they cooperate and then they use that data in order to occur to use you know to make a massive hoo-hah against them and and there and you know I don't know what you know exactly where it happens next but there's no doubt about it there's no it's New York New York represents Wall Street Wall Street represents JP Morgan JP Morgan represents JP Morgan Coyne and you know just just follow the money yeah there we go people that's an interesting theory out there pound that like button everyone so you brought it up I was gonna bring it up this is a good segue today in Congress I guess this is yesterday today in Congress representative Sherman called for a bill to ban all crypto currencies I link to that below uh and the guy in his little rant in 90-second rant whatever it was he actually brings up some up you know some good points about the Bitcoin about what what it really does that it get that you can get around US sanctions and you can get around taxes and he doesn't like that very much and he clearly is representing representing some entities a bit the federal government that wants their taxes being the the federal government that wants to enforce that he admits that that the dollar the dollar is power he admits it in it I mean so he's a jerk obviously he doesn't but he straight-up says it so I thought it was I thought it was bullish and I think people should should take it at face value and say you know the there are some people that want to stop it but you can't stop it and he gives some examples of why it is valuable so what what was your take on that whole spiel so I mean yeah firstly the crypto and Bitcoin there's some ignorant comments in our obviously but there's also some intelligent comments in there because actually it is a threat it is a challenge and it does give people you know choice and exit from the traditional financial system it regulates the regulator and it prevents you know in the end I think it makes fiat currencies more honest because they have to compete with something you know people having the choice of where to go another point in that there are some ignorant comments actually Bitcoin is a really really bad way of avoiding taxes because as soon as you actually try to spend that or you have to exchange it to fear it then you have a connection of your identity to your wallet address and that is an immutable record the the tax authorities in the future will continue to use in order to create a cracker cache crap but one thing that does have incredible value is that you can do that completely legally as opposed to illegally and that is that Bitcoin encourages people to save because the economics are designed to reward the saver over the long term because it is sound money and it does have a fixed supply and it is getting more and more useful every day to more and more people and so therefore by not spending it by saving it then you are not creating any kind of taxable event this is not tax advice I don't know what the tax situation is in your in your country but all the countries that I've you know understood the tax situation is that if you don't sell it then you're not going to pay a capital gains it encourages you to save while your traditional money is being spent at a loss because it encourages you to take on debt and credit cards and therefore you don't necessarily have taxable events so the fact is I think that it's not that it allows people to do tax evasion illegally it's that it actually stops people paying taxes legally because people are actually saving it and they can become incredibly wealthy over the long term and then they can decide with that wealth where they want to go where they want to reside and use some tax efficiency when they actually you know decide to liquidate spend that money on something else in a local local country and that is completely legal and a very very challenging thing for governments to get their heads around exactly why they they want to keep everything within their own banking system so they and control everything and get people to take on debt and spend so that they can create these taxable events they don't want you to save the existing system discourages savings it's a very stupid thing to do to save in fiat money and crypto and Bitcoin is creating this tidal wave of savers and that is a big problem to the government agenda that might not necessarily have your best interest in mind yeah very good very good point tidal wave of savers but right now I think it's a trickle because some people still don't get it that's why these exchanges are so popular people just use it as a gambling tool to go in and out of alts into to make more dollars they don't get it it is it's for savings dude it is if you know if you're trading crypto and do you think you are gonna get away with not paying taxes you're gonna be in a tricky situation in the future though all that data is saved on the exchange all those exchanges will be subpoenaed for that data at some point and when they connect your identity to a wallet address they're going to go right back to the history of that and you might find yourself in a very tricky situation depending on where the tidal wave goes so it's not at all it's not a good tool for tax evasion but it is if you do it legally exactly save people strong hand long-term thinking all right now you've talked about Bitcoin becoming more useful I agree it's definitely becoming more useful now in this era we've well today we brought up a lot of companies that are involved in the crypto space some controversial some not so controversial do you think on this date the May the 10th of 2019 that the Google or the Facebook or the Twitter of crypto already exists and we just don't know it yet or they have they not even been created yet because in terms of the internet revolution in in we had that calm bubble back in the day but there was no Twitter yet then there were there was no Facebook yet that was before those were even thought so where are we in the process do you think it's possible that the the Facebook of crypto is already out there that the Twitter of crypto is already out there or have they yet to even be thought of we're both this is this gives me a really good segue to and this wasn't planned my head and spoke about this without them but it gives me a really good segue to she'll some of the things that we're up to in a self-interested way so bank to the Future comm we've launched a secondary market where my people can buy and sell shares in the largest companies in crypto through one of our special company structures and so we're starting to see real market driven valuations of some of the largest companies in crypto now and some of those like coinbase a driving of valuation of about eight point three billion some of those like a kraken or about four billion others like bitstamp egg census at about Hoffa you know half a billion dollars and then BitFenix has had some volatile valuations as a result of the market pricing on that but this is really something that we're really interested in driving now the fact that we we now have market prices for many of these companies and people can decide whoever they're the next Facebook or Google and they can decide whether and they can benefit from that if they can't say we are seeing unicorns we have seen companies fail and we are seeing and there will be more companies that come along and that's is we now have a marketplace and and pricing for some of these companies it's currently in beta so we're not making a big splash about it but some of those you can now trade circle bit your next coin base and we've got other companies and most of the company larger companies in crypto where people can see some real-time pricing and speculate on that very interesting good good good answer there yeah we did we didn't plan that in advance at all which is awesome but okay so who knows they might be out there and maybe Simon this is helping fund them we we do not know what do you think is that you know but back in the day I think it was pretty predictable in in terms of the internet that that the if you were gonna master search and if you're gonna be the the biggest search engine you were gonna be a long-lasting powerful entity and Google became that and much much more what do you think's a recipe for success in the crypto space I think there's so many clearly you know hardware wallets it's gonna be a really really important industry I would certainly be betting on hardware wallets I wish that you know I was we were gonna I'm so good at baddest we were an early investor in ledger and an institution invested at the same round and they didn't want us in so they kicked us out and I'm really gutted that we missed that one but hardware wallets a really important industry and exchanges a the elephant in the room you know people are going to want to trade those and you've got also eventually we're gonna have you know non-custodial exchanges that's the real early speculation and I believe will eventually be a very big industry centralized exchange is clearly the winners at the moment I think hardware wallets is a really important part of the ecosystem someone's going to be doing all this mining someone's going to be producing these these chips and these Asics and hardware more efficiently in the future so this there's so many different areas there's and then you've got things like you know as proof estate comes through you've got definitely custodial services for all the people that want to hold it in a centralized way there's so many different parts of this ecosystem and we're just really really early on in this just so much growth let's let's talk about that proof of State how big is that gonna be these are custodial sources holding supposedly holding your coins and and staking them for you I mean that I mean again this is not Bitcoin at all this is gonna be a theory improbably yeah I mean the institution's wanna definitely institutions want returns there is no yield bonds are dead stocks are not producing the returns that they want you know gold is because you know is more of a story value than investment and people are looking for different ways to get yield in the current market one of those new ways yield and the way you can do it through an institution is some of these staking coins and they are gonna be and things that people are looking for as a way to do that and there's gonna be a whole custodial industry built around that there's going to be a whole decentralized industry built around that and yeah there's there's no doubt about it that this is going to be an important and interesting asset course in the future yeah well I guess eventually the real big boys are gonna get into that staking thing right now it's like exchanges and entities that are just totally crypto related because they would know how to do that better than anyone but I guess you know fidelity all those people do something like that to one things my yeah fidelity or you know they're there in this market in a big way they've been in it for a while I've spoken to some of the people that are in the cryptocurrency Department and some of the behind-the-scenes conversations right now they you know it took them three years to put together a Bitcoin solution they've got trillion dollar reputations on the line they take their fiduciary duties very very very seriously this isn't you know mount gorks they've they've got some they've got some serious amount on the line and they you know becoming comfortable now with Bitcoin they think that bitcoin is anything they're comfortable working with and but certainly when they see how much money they're going to make out of providing such services for Bitcoin they're gonna want to follow another strata another approach just like they did in their traditional business and expand the suite of products and you know this they're definitely gonna be one in in a big way and then that brings in all the other people that want to compete and do stuff as well and you bring up fidelity taking their time because they're a responsible institution do you think the the other institutions are also very much just being very careful but they want to do it the right way but at the same time is there a rush to get in before the having do you think that you even know about that oh I think you know I mean the people at these institutions they go you know they've got significant resources to research they're not ignorant you know some of the people like you know the Congress people that are making stupid comments they are obviously very ignorant but these these financial institutions are small they've got a lot of resources you know they don't fidelity is decided to be one of the first members we got cryptocurrency exchanges from high sand New York Stock Exchange NASDAQ everything coming through all the big players are getting ready to go you know the the next bull market is it's just gonna be a very different market altogether you know you got every every central bank every financial institution every retail bank every fortune 500 company every footsie 100 every Tokyo they're they're all they're all playing they're all dabbling and you know they're I think there has been so much accumulation from retail over to institutional and then yeah they're just waiting that they're just waiting aside but that sucks out the supply makes it more scarce but yeah there's there's definitely gonna be an institutional market being that is currently being built and it's getting bigger and bigger yeah well people are asking why is the price going up was probably because some entity out there or number of entities are accumulating and one day it's gonna be pretty obvious that we'll be able to figure it out we'll be able to go back in time to be like oh that's when they were buying it all up and once people realize how much is like not out there to buy anymore and that that's a partially will be it'll be revealed after the having was not as many new ones will be produced then but it it'll be good it'll be good for those of us who have a tresor and who do not rely on a staking to acquire more crypto we get it ourselves we put it on our Tresor and if we want more if we want more crypto then we figure out a way to split the the forks the crypto dividends off of a Tetris or other storage device or whatever and that's why I was shaking my head before him we're talking about staking and you know that there's that you were saying there's no yields and bonds anymore and then people have to go in this direction if people just took a little bit of time to research and they can get dividends on their Bitcoin they can get interest on their Bitcoin is it the easiest thing in the world to do to split off the fork you know and and and get some of these Forks that'll come in the you know it's not the easiest thing in the world but it's a lot safer than saying hey centralized authority hold my coin for me and give me some give me some staking coins from it and report all my earnings to the Internal Revenue Service I mean that's that's what you're signing out with with that sign my little take on us taking right there versus uh holding and yeah obviously a big a big sign that the bull market maybe is returning is if treasurers and Ledger's and all that stuff starts to sell out again and yeah that's unfortunate you're not invested in ledger because there'll be a big bull run on Ledger's and treasurer's suit soon enough I'm pretty sure so alright so well I think we've reached the end here any any final thoughts any conclusionary thoughts I think we've covered it all there's just never never a dull moment in crypto I'm looking forward to seeing some of the live use I know the you know when when I've been it's been it's been pretty quiet in crypto with a lot of people building I'm excited by liquid as well that's another thing that we've been looking at we've been doing a bit of playing around with liquid but I think you're gonna see a lot of tokens coming over to Bitcoin see and it will be interesting to see where we're all that case but yeah I guess we're still you know the the lightning stuff has been a little bit slower than I'd like it to be the user experience is still far away from anything that's usable but there's such a tremendous amount of energy behind it it's it's really interesting to see but then you've got Bitcoin liquid lightning all these things coming through in this there's a there's a real playground of innovation for people that want to be building things that no one else is really thinking about certain moment I'm I'm glad you brought up liquid I'm glad you brought because that the last couple days I've been hearing things about that again and I that people have forgotten about it and hey maybe it did maybe that's part of the spike who knows that that's that we should keep our eye on man and maybe next time we shall they'll be big reveals about next time you come on the show which I very much look forward to so everyone that was Simon Dixon he's awesome he rocks he'll be back on the show again check out the archives if you want to see some of the past shows he's been on to disrupt meister comm all right every week a new show here every friday every day your new show so keep on tuning in disrupt meister dot-com follow me on twitter at tech vault-tec HB alt i'm adam meister the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister town that like button bang that bell button shabbat shalom i will see you guys when I'm in Los Angeles tomorrow bye bye everyone see ya
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