Hello everyone this is adam meister the bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister welcome to this week in a Bitcoin today is the Ides of March right March the 15th 2019 where we got here strong hand offended by selling Val your wealth and Bitcoin uncomplicated well personal responsibility is the new counterculture and of course be in motion like my three guests there they're really in motion we got JW weatherman we got Marty bet and we got for tax these guys are freaking all-stars you can tell that I am back in the United States because I can get dudes that are usually asleep when I was doing the show back in Israel so now everyone's awake you've got your regular dudes back that you've missed so much I know you've been craving these dudes well actually Marty came on I think once when I was an insert but he's heat because he can wake up early but these dude the other dudes can't so let us start with Marty because he can wake up early you had a on your mailing list and everybody check out these dues that link to below snore refresher snore signatures privacy issues that have been in the news a lot lately what's going on Marty yeah thanks again for having me on Adam it's always fun to be on the show yeah so Lucas nuzzie from dark crypto I believe are basically just a really good article on snore signatures and what they are and how they may be how they may help Bitcoin going forward and particularly help retains the fungibility and scalability so yeah I just touched on that something I've been touching on the newsletter over the last few months or signatures as a lot of people who are in the space know is a big sort of want for Bitcoin in particular the current signature scheme you see DSA is sort of constricting and if we are able to figure out a way to soft Bork Schnoor in it would help in terms of efficiency scalability privacy and it would enable stuff like mu cig and taproot which would enable off chain smart contracts and really cool stuff that you can do on Bitcoin so that's something I've been covering all credit goes Lukas nosey who wrote the article and sort of really gets into granular detail about what it would mean if we were to implement it into the protocol I'm sure vortex or JW can get more into the technical details but as I understand it that's so that's why I wanted to cover it all right vortex are we getting private soon with the Schnoor what's going on with that yeah I mean I'm again you know I'm not a cryptographer either but of course this stuff is really fascinating to me you know and this is just really really interesting and you know Marty covered a bunch of it already and there's just so many great articles out there and really I got to recommend another one too in addition to the one that Marty recommended Aaron van weirdo actually who's right writes a lot for Bitcoin magazine has some awesome article privacy articles privacy focused articles dealing with snort signatures so I highly recommend everybody check that out as well I mean you know we're not we won't get you know into the too much of the technicals here cuz I'm sure your audience isn't isn't all cryptographers but you know this is just a really big win for Bitcoin as as Margie said this is going to be a win for efficiency this is gonna be a win for scaling and of course this is going to be a win for privacy so you know the biggest the biggest win here with wish nor is this this just this ability to aggregate signatures and really it when it's at its full full final version its final form right it can it's going to be able to aggregate thousands and thousands and then tens of thousands of signatures and to into single into like a single transaction so this is going to get really really a really amazing it's going to work we're talking on savings fees of like 25 plus percent that could actually happen once this thing is in full swing and I really want to preface this with also that this is going to be this is still could be a couple years away right this is this is going to be going to require a sophomore could be in the 20 20 or 21 software kit could actually be in the next segment a version as well that that might be pushed so it it could be it's good the way it's going to be a couple years but this is just going to be huge now you know Gregory Maxwell I mean all the all the greats are on this right so Gregory Maxwell Andrew Podesta you know Peter wooly all the greats are on this and they have just recently released a paper about this this new city this new signature scheme to to facilitate snore right this music this multi signature scheme and this is going to be really interesting because again this reduces the number of signatures required in a transaction so we got where I got aggregating signatures and then we got reducing the actual amount of signatures so just awesome also awesome wins in Bitcoin we really really really value our every little bite so if we get like one to three percent efficiency gains we are just excited but was Schnoor you know we're talking 25 plus percent in certain areas so that is a huge huge win for Bitcoin and again the privacy so it's it's really really exciting and I'm thinking that in the next couple of years this really should it should be in there it just it's just a win for everybody nobody's gonna think that this is bad what's the name Marty Marty you know that guy's name what's his like I got a um Lukas nauseam uzz I okay so I didn't link to that currently I should have so I remember to do that after the show it will be everything will be linked to below some things are already linked there JW how you doing you got thoughts on this yeah yeah no I mean this is really cool the part of the part of what's going on here is that the original signature scheme that Bitcoin uses or currently used this ECDSA it was kind of a hacky workaround because the sure that the guy that Schnoor signatures is named after the cryptographer that came up with it he patented it and it was kind of obvious and it kind of sucks that he patented it because it was fairly elegant right and so ECDSA we use that now it's this kind of semi goofy workaround because it wasn't patented it was actually designed to kind of avoid his pent which is why it's kind of hacky it's just it's just hacking it's clunky so it makes it harder to build interesting stuff on top of so the way that the way that this is going to affect Bitcoin it's going to affect it in a bunch of different ways right like it's a very foundational sort of improvement and there's a lot of there's a lot of people that get excited about like the really flashy shiny stuff right like Oh grin has you know I remember limbal it's this massive change that we probably can't get in but it would have this huge effect that you know essentially you have like one transaction per block sort of thing right like everything's everything's consolidated and that's great for privacy this is going to enable more stuff like that right so if you get to the point where where transactions are cheaper when they're consolidated then people are going to be incentivized to do that so the problem with coin join right now which is basically just mixing rate like if we all want to send money to somebody if we send it direct that compromises our privacy because the amounts are visible and the source and the destination address is visible so we did something like wasabi wallet and we coin join we take all those transactions you know if you want to think of it as like money laundering or whatever right you pour all of those transactions into one washing machine and then everybody pulls their stuff out and you can't see where it came from because it went into a pile first what's cool about noir signatures or signature aggregation is that they're gonna incentivize that sort of solution right so it will be cheaper for me to send you money by grouping it with other people's transaction which that should could but I think probably will be enough to completely break all blockchain analysis like blockchain analysis is mostly voodoo and BS at this point anyway but when we get to the point where we're actually more often than not aggregating or transactions together that's gonna break it even further probably to the point of no return and then we can all just go okay all this hype around privacy coins we can finally stop caring about it because Bitcoin will be then private enough to where it's not even worth trying to analyze it so that's one application but there's other applications this too because it's so fundamental right it's a very base level layer sort of cryptographic improvement and I certainly don't understand all the implications but some of them have to do with being able to do smart contracts that are off chain but it's it's so basic it's like being able to multiply numbers right so there's a lot of really cool stuff that's gonna come out of that and yeah so I'm I'm very excited about it and this is this is the sort of boring way things work right this is if you want to see real progress it's like hey we came up with this way to multiply two numbers it has all these implications we're not sure what it means yet but over the next couple year you're gonna see some really crazy stuff it's not hype and BS and shiny things to start with Wow you you made a big claim there this is gonna get you couldn't put the chain analysis people out of business do you for Texas this uh is this a big claim here is this said do you agree no this is this is this is awesome I mean this is exactly this is exactly the plan so essentially uh now what I want what I wanted to add a note about is that really this can only become you know mass massive privacy solution if wallets kind of implement these things by default right so if well let's start adding more features like wasabi wallet by default then we can all just enjoy this privacy and snore makes this possible because it actually makes it cheap to use privacy so because of the signature aggregation so with this soft worked into Bitcoin wallets can then by default start adding these privacy features so again like you know set it and forget it right that's the whole thing that we want to get Bitcoin to eventually for the end user right is to be able to have all this privacy all this ability to use all this power of Bitcoin all this full node capability all this stuff built in and baked into some kind of streamlined easy to use you know package whether that's built baked baked into the your router or baked into your operating system or whatever it is so this is absolutely a win in that route and one one other comment I wanted to say is that JW mentioned the smart contract I believe that he's referring to masked right so this is going to enable masked which is this this this new way of doing smart contracts you know on Bitcoin it's going to be really really fascinating to see how powerful you can get with that because with unlike aetherium smart contracts where you have to calculate all the gas are gonna use there's nothing like that with it this is just you know exactly what's going to happen there is no ifs or run times or loops you know it's just BAM you you what you see is what you get so that is going to create very very powerful capabilities for smart contracts over Bitcoin with this massive technology dude vortex I've missed you pound that light button it is great to have you back here are some apple cider vinegar I this was at my Airbnb you can tell you're at a great Airbnb with someone just left this here for me you know whoever stayed here in the past I just wanted to point that out okay but back to the show yeah Marty do you have any thoughts on what was just said you know I think vortex and JW covered a lot I think again going back to probably the most important point is that it will be economically and people will be economically incentivized to use more signatures because of the cheaper fees of aggregation with aggregation so as with everything in Bitcoin and the game theory when the economic incentives aligned you find that people sort of coalesce and adopt the features that are more economic so it makes sense and it seems like a roundabout way to get privacy and sort of in everybody's best interest to so alright and and vortex that question from the audience there that I sent to you what do they I don't think they lost it oh you see you see what so the question was how many actual signatures can you support in a single transaction with with Schnoor fully in ableton I actually don't know the bit amount actually don't know but I do know that it's in the tens of thousands I'm not actually sure about the bit we'd have to google that all right and JW final you'll close out this subject matter you had something the private chat there that I said yeah I was just saying that it's what's exciting about this from a privacy standpoint is that if it's cheaper to have a private transaction than a non private transaction then the heard of people that we all need to be around us to be private they'll go they'll go with us right so wallets yes right now wallets they don't enable coin join why because it's actually a little bit more expensive and people don't really care about it and it's kind of hard to do this is gonna make it very easy to do it's gonna make it cheaper and so wallets are going to do them because users are gonna demand it if if wallet a has fees that are consistently higher than wallet B even if I don't know that wallet a has better or worse privacy than will it be that's the one that people are gonna use and so it it incentivizes privacy and we really we need that in order to be private as Tim may famously said you can't be pregnant by yourself you have to be you know in the herd with everybody else that's bit of a slaughter if his his comment but that's the idea the other thing that I was going to say about this is that confidential transactions are really cool right so bitcoin guys came up Adam back came up with confidential transactions we have all these scam wieners like fluffy pony running around talking about how great confidential transactions are on his chain but it has downsides and one of the downsides it's a really important one that we should all be struggling with as we're thinking about confidential transactions is that you don't get to see the amounts and if we have an inflation bug if we have something that allows people to create Bitcoin out of thin air which in theory is not possible but right now we know it's never been done because we can look at the blockchain we can see that there's X number 16 million whatever bitcoins that are in existence that's very reassuring and that especially to non-technical people that we're trying to convince to adopt Bitcoin because of all these great properties being able to say definitively this is how many bitcoins exist because here's a list of them it's very valuable and so that's going to be disappointing if we have to give that up in order to get privacy it still may be worth it right I'm not saying that it's not a good idea to do confidential transactions but it might not be right because there's really scary trade-offs it's it's a really tough call with this if we get privacy just because we're mixing and just because it's cheaper and more efficient it's sort of there's no downside right it's it's all good and that's the sort of solutions that people come up with when they agonize over the details for years and years and they're not trying to do a nice ago so good job to all the guys that are doing the hard work to make this happen all right more text you held up your hand there did you something say or they just look less sorry one less one less comment basically yeah this is really important with JW's sandwiches we're in Bitcoin we're trying to implement privacy at the transactional layer because we need that base layer to be transparent it's very very important that we are able to look under the hood and anybody is able to publicly verify these transactions themselves whether that's my transaction or your transaction I still need to be able to verify I don't care who you are but I need to be able to know that at any transaction that's out there on the network I can verify myself and so this is this is a really really important trade-off look there's always going to be in trick there's always gonna be trade-offs with different technologies and different ways of doing things and confidential transactions are going to have their place somehow somewhere in fact even liquid the liquid network from block stream is using confidential transactions but it's all the more of a smaller private federated network but at the same time that the most important point to take away is that we don't know the best the best future but we're trying this all at once but really I think the the people need to understand that privacy at the transactional layer at least on a base you know money like Bitcoin is is absolutely paramount we need to be able to see under the hood and find out what's going on all right well I'm excited for the 2020s man this is gonna be quite a decade coming out with all these new developments and hey we're here early so I love that these guys were telling us about it before it happens so I wanna remind everyone follow me a tech vault-tec HP alt on twitter it's linked to below along with all these other guys Twitter's you can learn a lot on Twitter pound that like button all right so we're moving on to another subject Matt and I will quote Samson mal who has been on this show before he said I find it adorable that people are so concerned with the fine print on exactly how Heather is backed while the money they think is in their own bank savings account is probably tied up in a mortgage loan you know they're very good point there I'm sure some of the people flooding a tether have their money they think they have their money in a bank also so basically what's going on with tether in the news and this is linked to below tether previously said the coin was a hundred percent backed by an equal number of US dollars in reserve and it's no longer saying that it's backed up a hundred percent by US dollars it's backed up by a lot of things apparently uh Marty your thoughts on this ever it seems like whenever the word tether is uttered there must be fun in insanity for me it's like just a reminder like it's all cyclical and we're just gonna keep on hearing this over and over again and no one has to mess with Heather Martin take it away yeah so it seems as if Heather is taking what people are extrapolating from their recent announcement is that they're taking some of the US dollars that are backing the tether and maybe putting them to use an interest-bearing account don't know what that speculation it could be the case but like you said like tether regardless of what they're doing with the US dollars that back you just know that it exists to skirt state regulations and to skirt the US government in particular so if you are using tether in the US government one day the sides that they do not like tether anymore I just know that your funds could probably be frozen at any point in time it is a risk I'm not a huge fan of stable coins or using them I don't necessarily see the point unless you're a trader to hold them and especially in the spaces should just hold US dollars in the bank account or something that unless obviously those cases where people can't but I think the the third-party risk that comes with tether in particular and sort of not knowing exactly what's going on at all times is a risk I'm not willing to take with that being said I think tether is gonna fail overnight now I think the music can keep spinning for tether for a pretty long time just just know the risk if you're gonna get into it and and yeah that's all I can say about yeah you know one Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin that's my stable coin vortex your thoughts on this latest round of tether fun when Bitcoin will always equal one Bitcoin people don't forget that because there's going to be a lot of people out there that are going to try to take your satoshis whether that comes in the form of tether or maker and die or whatever that is somebody is going to try to get your satoshis from you so essentially you know there's there's always a lot of fun around tether because what tether is is essentially a difficult solution to a difficult problem and really it's it's not the greatest solution that we have but it was the first solution and essentially you tether really was the first stable coin that this that this uh that this market actually experienced and what this was able to do was really bring a bunch of liquidity in because you could actually you know go from from a cryptocurrency to the dollar a tether right really sit really quickly back and forth and so people held a lot of money in teller in fact Heather got up to be to the point of number seven on coin market cap itself is billions of dollars right now in tether so anytime you know one little thing like this changes like the terms of service though this is very important change in the terms of service anytime something a little like this changed there's going to be a lot of fun there's going to be a lot of craziness around it what I'll say is that there's going to throw has a lot more competition now there is a lot more stable coins coming out and there probably will be a few more in the future we don't need like thousands grades but we need a few and at least for the temporary phase that where we find ourselves in now which is the transitional stage you know if going from Bitcoin going from traditional Fiat to Bitcoin we're going to need this this ability to go to build the quiddity we're going to need this for market makers we're going to need this for traders we're going to need this for speculation which of course is the number one network effect that drives bitcoins price and the rest of Kryptos price right now even though bitcoin of course is the only crypto out there that has something other than speculation in its market but really the biggest takeaway is that they tether changed their terms of service they they're essentially no longer saying that every tether is what buy one dollar one Fiat dollar can now be like collateral loans to third parties like it could be it could be really anything at this point we with it with with the lack of clarification that is now in these Terms of Service really we don't know what could technically actually be backing tether it could be now several things in addition to just the dollar but but again like these they're stable cons are going to be here for a while I think that a few stable coins are necessary specifically the ones that are actually backed by US dollars so that people can you know so we can facilitate facilitate this transitional period from traditional Fiat to Bitcoin but for now really I don't pay too much attention to tether or these stable coins as we all know you know where most of us here are just hostlers yeah exactly and I want to say with the stable Chris Marty said that tether could be turned off by the US government one day the thing but but take it keep in mind if you're using like gemini coin they gemini can just turn that off on you take it all back you know if they think you're doing a bad thing with it so they all can they okay so all again traders are gonna do what traders are gonna do 80% are gonna be 80 percenters they're gonna they want to go back and forth between these stable supposedly stable coins and they're trading it's risky one and you might be on the blacklist one day where you can't use a gemini coin anymore so good luck personal responsibility is a new counterculture JW your thoughts on the situation yeah stable coins are interesting I'm one of the few people that that are definitely a Bitcoin maximalist you know I think some people call me the maximalist maximalist or something but I'm also a big fan of stable coins I think they're great I don't see any downside if if you look if you have Gemini dollars right and they're on this token or you have a chase fake account what are the differences Gemini dollars are there a us
institution they're all regulated you know they're part of the war machine these guys might Lobby to like kill innocent kids in Syria but they're probably not gonna steal your bank account right same thing with Chase like I'm not the the risk that they steal my money is equal right but with Gemini dollars I have all this I have all this feature feature ability right like I can move them around I can send them between wallets I don't have to I don't have to try to use the cash app if I need to send money to somebody that's international I can do that in theory with these Gemini dollars so to me the Gemini type stable coins are just like an upgraded bank account right there's all kinds of downsides to them but there are basically the same downsides that you have with your Bank of America account right tether is different tether is this crazy company nobody really knows much about it nobody knows the founders these guys are not having dinners at the Federal Reserve right I don't know who these dudes are but they have billions of dollars that we're all trusting them to hold on to now maybe these guys are trustworthy right but the reason that I trust Chase is because they already own me right like I'm already a slave of the state they're not gonna steal 50 grand out of my bank account they're not gonna do anything like that because they already have me right so I trust them and sort of this citizen slave relationship but with these tether guys like I am amazed that they haven't stolen the money so far I don't see why they have the only guess is that they're they're either building it up really really big I mean look what do you guys think it is do you think these guys are just holy you think these guys love you more than their own kids and that's why they're not taking your money and running like what is the theory here that this money is actually there I think it probably is because because they're probably still building if they're making so much money off of it right now but there's going to be a time where this massive bag of money is just more attractive than the trickle of money that comes in on fees and if that money doesn't walk out the door I'm gonna be as amazed as anybody and that's a whole different situation than dealing with like the Winklevoss twins that are already billionaires and are politically connected in the United States so I'm not a huge fan of what tether is I think they served a role but look if if you have money and tether I'm saying right now I'm not I'm not saying there's a problem right I'm not trying to create flood and hype and all that sort of stuff it's a really bad idea it was a bad idea six months ago it was a bad idea 24 months ago I don't know it's a worse idea today but it's still a bad idea so if you have an alternative like if you can get into something like a Gemini do that better yet if you can handle the volatility just stay in Bitcoin exactly because you know if everyone refused this what JW just said at the Stork he used the word trust so many times when describing stable coins or whichever ones he was describing that's the thing Bitcoin trustless those things different levels of trust well is it oh I like this one because the wincle buyer behind it I don't like this one because the who who knows who's behind it vortex or Marti any comments on whether JW said just just the final thing is real quick is you know it's absolutely true that when that trickle of money becomes less than the sum right of everything that money will walk away it's just because it's not a it's not the same thing as like a JPM coin or a Gemini it's just simply not the same thing they're not playing on the same field it's a different whole different thing they got banks around the world and and assets and God knows what so my personal opinion again you know I'm okay with sample coins that are actually insured and backed by US dollars in the account that we can prove and see but you know stuff like tether it gets really really hairy and you have to be really really careful and I just want to make sure that you know that people know that you have to be really really careful they the only reason why it hasn't been stolen yet is because they are making like JW said a crapload of profits on these fees III want to remind everyone that tether is not Bitcoin by the way because when tether does blow up in the future whenever that maybe people are gonna try to say that it was Bitcoin or something so just have a strong hand when it happens I know you guys know that tether isn't Bitcoin but I just want to put it out there for the new reasons that won't get confused and yeah we know what will happen in the future anyway I've done Barty thoughts I mean any conclusionary thoughts on the tether my memory serves me correctly tether was sort of birthed out of the aftermath of the BitFenix hack so they sort of created this as a solution to getting hack and I think they stumbled upon into success and obviously it's been very successful to this point so jw+ like what's their reasoning behind it they stumbled into it because they had to because they got hacked originally hello I don't think that's the reason they came up with it I know thinking oh yeah that was the thing that was there that was there from there one-to-one peg so that they will pay you big Phenix got when he got hacked I thought they had a toe a big Phenix token they had that as well but then they had to create tether to be able to facilitate between the two I think it's a great point right they have a history of getting hacked and if you're a Bitcoin exchange and you've been hacked you had all the technology that you could possibly need to stay safe and you didn't execute it well or it was an inside job which 99% of the time it's an inside job now these same guys these same guys were trusting to hold all of our money in unnamed bank accounts mmm I'm sticking with Chase Wells Fargo the Winklevoss twins Gemini whatever stupid coin but it's not gonna be for the money that I have to keep in Fiat it's not going to be tether and I've been saying that for a long time so again I'm not saying there's anything to this announcement I'm not trying to create flood and panic but this is a bad idea and you know if you're in a country where you can't get those tokens you got to do what you got to do but at least know that that the clock is ticking right at every every day that goes by there is a significant chance maybe it's 1% chance maybe it's a quarter percent chance that there's going to be bad news about tether and that's gonna mean that all your tethers are worthless that's the reality so I don't trust it The Linde effect does not apply to tether like it applies to Bitcoin people good point when when yes that's interesting because people would argue that well it was the first stable coin it's lasted longer than all the rest so I say you're okay it doesn't apply there of vortexes saying very interesting very very interesting I will say this it was good to get a reminder that big Phenix yes it was hacked in 2016 people they all get hacked eventually that's just a a lot of people don't remember that as they weren't around I remember was right before the having actually and the price of being going up and then we went it went down because of people are panicked because of the hack anyway let's uh sweet memories pound that like button so here is an article from the block crypto what do they have to say here CBOE halts Bitcoin futures the product generated less than half the volume that competitor cm II groups Bitcoin futures generated alright does this matter JW uh I don't know man I'm not sure actually but I I mean when I saw that news I was like ah that's a bummer but then I did consider the fact that yeah there wasn't as much volume so my guess is that as long as we I mean the only thing that I care about all these stupid things for is just ultimate Bitcoin adoption right so I don't I like I'm not gonna invest in an ETF that's so stupid why would I do that I'm gonna hold my own keys because I'm not a moron but there's a lot of people that need to be brought through that process and so I want a Bitcoin ETF I want people that that unfortunately have money tied up in a 401k and they just can't take it out without getting crazy penalties but they'd like to invest some in Bitcoin I want them to be able to do that and I think they need stuff like an ETF I think we need some amount of you know financialization for that to happen and so like when I first saw it I was like as this is set back I don't think it is but I'm not really an expert on this stuff because I don't really care about it other than you know just to see Bitcoin adopted over time so I don't know actually Marty would probably know more than me if if this is going to be a problem for like Bitcoin ETF approval or anything like that but my hope is that as long as we have Bitcoin futures we still have just as much liquidity my hope is that it doesn't matter that we have two of them I don't know what do you guys think well I'll say this what so Bitcoin futures product dies so what I mean we've got a long future ahead of us there gonna be other Bitcoin future products coming into the space in the future oh I said future two different ways all right but so just yeah it's one company debit bailing out whatever they for whatever reasons Marty your thoughts you know those Prue's is that the CM II had a better product that traders wanted to use so it's like the volume proved it and it's a I don't recall the exact specifics of the CBOE product in particular but as with every market it's like they go for liquidity stuff like that and futures markets that one exposure to Bitcoin it looks like they're choosing the CME product of a CBOE product maybe the CBOE will come out for products once there's more overall liquidity in the market but in terms of ETF I'm not positive how that affects it or anything like that but it's pretty much I would say it's it's a more of a sort of black eye for the CBOE I want to thank Molotov cocktail for the two dollars in super chat he said hola hola dude and thank you vortex you have any thoughts on this uh yeah just a couple I mean first of all it's absolutely not a setback like again as Marty said that all this show is that to see the CPU we had had an inferior product because look they had declining volume they were cash-settled people they were cash-settled they were in my opinion are actually a net negative for the overall ecosystem so I'm glad that uh that they they got their crappy product um you know and that people saw that it was a crappy product in that now they're discontinuing it because again the they did not serve you the underlying right they were it was just completely cash-settled and so what we saw is that people just didn't care especially when the price went down you know people just stopped caring now we do see the volume though on see of me continuing to go up we see it could you know and just specifically recently in the past month we've saw it we thought we started to gain much more volume so and you know as I just a comment on the the actual price like essentially you know we are you know Bitcoin you can think of a Bitcoin as like this big tanker markets right as like this big tanker when the tanker starts like turning you know it's gonna start turning and there's no kind of turning it back for a while it takes a while to turn this huge thing and now what we see is that the whole market itself the whole you know the whole Bitcoin and the whole capital market is starting to turn we see we see Bitcoin starting to turn up we see you know we're hitting higher lows you know so we're continuing to to to consolidate and go through this consolidation period but you know there's going to be so many products that are going to be launched on top of this this was just one inferior product that went away and you know fidelity you know if you'll if you read some of the comments that some of the larger institutions like fidelity are saying they they are just not worried at all I mean they are absolutely not caring about this current price they just recently launched their their new custodial product I think they soft launch that this week so you know they're and all their clients the same thing they're like yeah we don't care about this corner quote bear market bitcoin was one thousand dollars in January 2017 I'm still doing better than a callous you know I like Bitcoin is absolutely still continuing to outperform I mean if you go back for them if you counted all the way back from the beginning like you know it's it's a pretty large percent and it absolutely outcompetes anything else that's ever come before it so I think that this is good to this product left we're gonna get much better products namely you know like things like this eme all right let us move on from this topic it had to be brought up but that that there there are thoughts be patient people let us talk about government interference with cryptocurrency with what some people theorize is going to happen or what is happening here we got Nick Carter saying prediction in the next 12 months a high-profile Western government will criminalize Bitcoin ownership justifications will include terrorist financing owned by regimes like North Korea and Maduro darknet markets then Matt Odell actually added a tweet to that the more likely play is that some governments start requiring full disclosure of holdings and addresses like Canada's do well will be difficult enforce but they would try to make an example of a couple of people encouraged to encourage compliance so I guess I'll start with Marty on this what do you think our ace is a country gonna outlaw it or they've missed the boat on that or we just gonna be like what Canada is doing are there gonna be countries to say hey we know you've got some crypto list all your public addresses we're gonna try to intimidate you yeah I have no idea whether somebody's gonna come out an outright ban Bitcoin over the next year nothing would surprise me I don't think it's gonna happen but that's what surprised me and then yeah Canada's doing it's just like the natural course of what these governments are going to do the world is moving towards a negative interest rate policy sort of regime and what that dictates is or that tells me is that the central banks and governments around the world once it milk their constituency for as much revenue as they possibly can and bitcoin is going to be a sorcerer they see as a potential source of revenue and it just makes sense that they would want to know everything about your Bitcoin as as as JW would say is slave in their system but yeah wouldn't surprise me if anything it draws more attention to what we spoke about the beginning of this episode or signatures and let's just get it to a point where they can't even I can't even do it like that's the mindset I have and that's why I write about and talk about things like sheen or signatures because it'll get to a point where it's easy to sort of have civil disobedience the Bitcoin transactions be like well try to throw me that's not really alright JW I'm gonna let you go wild on this subject cuz I don't know you've got a lot to say I don't have any strong opinions on this yeah but and I'm worried that I didn't have you on the show last week because you couldn't get up at 4:00 in the morning or whatever but I we talked about what Canada did you might have heard they sent some letters out to people they know have Bitcoin or they think have cryptocurrency at least and they want people to divulge a lot of information do you think the United States would go as far as Canada has gone that because it's some of the stuff seems pretty unconstitutional what they were trying to do there but uh take it away Jamie oh man yeah you nefeli know how to trigger me Heathrow the Constitution before yeah so the Constitution is worthless it has been worthless for a really long time it's a good piece of marketing that keeps us all feeling like we have some rights and freedoms but none of those rights and freedoms are gonna be affected by that piece of paper the Supreme Court is just good PR and when they tell you something is constitutional there's a lot of people that go oh it's constitutional now so it's a it's a complete disaster for for liberty and freedom at this point in time in history so I don't think that's going to be doing anything to stop the IRS from asking for data or going to banks and getting data look they already do all this stuff right like there's there's nothing there's nothing that would be weird about the IRS saying hey we just this is a request for information it's completely voluntary right this is a voluntary system you voluntarily pay your taxes we really need voluntary compliance here and we're just asking a question you can lie to us of course you can just not answer but most people are going to get a letter from the IRS they're gonna freak out and they're gonna tell the IRS what the IRS is asking which is exactly what I would do because I've been through audits with businesses and they're miserable so you know there wouldn't be anything weird about this I don't think there's anything weird about Canada doing it it has some negative implications for blockchain analysis though so these this this data that they get if they get all of the addresses from a large number of Canadians then that crowd that we need to hide in and we don't necessarily need to hide in it because we're terrorists or something but if you don't want everybody to know what your paycheck is and you're getting paid in Bitcoin you don't want you want a certain amount of privacy and if the IRS or the Canadian government or other institutions start asking people and they voluntarily give up their addresses and their balances that crowd that we're all hiding in drinks right and so it definitely hurts everybody's privacy but what's great about Bitcoin is that its software and we're not all that great as like people that are just good decent people that want to raise families about propaganda and you know education in quotes and all of the stuff that the mobsters and the gangsters are good at but we are good at building stuff and that's why the cypherpunk movements going to win so if these gangsters start putting pressure on people to divulge their addresses all it's going to do is motivate us to write more code right motivates us to build more solutions we're all excited about signatures and there's another there's another thing that's in play that I think we're all going to get a lot more excited about if this starts happening and that's the pay to endpoint concept right which is basically it's a really simple elegant hack and that's that's how like I said before you can tell the difference between real professionals that are really building good stuff and people that are just putting out marketing white papers right this is it's so elegant it's simple but it has a big impact and the basic idea is if I want to send you fifty five dollars instead of sending you fifty five dollars you and I work together to create a transaction and my input is fifty five and your input is forty five and the output is a hundred back to you right so this the receiver actually adds some money to the input that is going to make their job a whole lot harder so all we have to do is little stuff like that and I would probably take that and the Canadian government in the US government asking people for addresses in a heartbeat like I think just pay to end point is gonna make it so much harder for these monkeys to track us that sending out a bunch of letters doesn't matter right so that's how easy this stuff is for us to win when we play on our battlefield we don't want to play in you know philosophy we don't want to be fighting the sjw's at universities or getting hit in the head with you know buy clocks and stuff we just want to shut up and just build stuff that's useful and completely make them irrelevant Wow I got a letter from the government the other day that was all right more text your thoughts on this yeah JW covered most of it but essentially this is a risk that it was always there you know people like tone vase have been you know trying to tell people to to not use coinbase for years and years and years right we've been stressing using things like local bitcoins and things because this and other services like that because these peer-to-peer services because this was always going to happen you know Quinn base was always going to KYC the government was always going to eventually ask probably for some of these public addresses and so you know we bitcoins been thinking about privacy for years I mean since the beginning Bitcoin you know is is all about you know the cyberpunk movement right cypherpunks right code so they absolutely understood this is this was a future that could happen and so this is why the Klan was created and first place so they're going to of course try to play a couple of their games like they're gonna maybe send out some letters showing us you're telling us you know requesting your public addresses like Canada's doing maybe they'll do that but there are you know certain things you can do as just a regular citizen like you know you could download a script that would give them like like Francis said you could download a script that would give them literally you know millions and millions of addresses from your from your one single key from your one single pump key and just just deed awesome right with just a million address ears all my public addresses and they have literally be a like a million and for you is just five minutes of work but for them it's going to be you know insane insanity to try to go through that so that's one way to do it you know just to give them a bit of a hard time by this JW said if they press too much they're just going to work around it between pay to end points no our signatures you know coin joining this stuff is going to eventually all be by default this is very very early days we were just making sure the system works right now but you can better believe that this was always going to be the the situation the government was always going to eventually eventually you know us try to suppress Bitcoin and so we've been preparing it preparing for that for four years with education and of course with with these amazing cypherpunks that are keeping up keeping keeping up Bitcoin and adding new privacy features like like the ones that we spoke about earlier so I think that I'm not worried in the slightest but I absolutely see foresee that as a future that eventually you know where we're going it's a cat-and-mouse game they're gonna try one thing we're gonna write code to make it irrelevant they're gonna make me try something else alright some more code but at the end of the day um we've been it's the same message as I was right keep your coin if you can off of centralized services use peer-to-peer try not to have it attach your name to Bitcoin if you can because just we still have to go through that final boss battle before Bitcoin is really like safer for everybody we do have to go through that final boss battle and this is going to play out over decades you know but the one thing you can do absolutely is you know hold your oo as Adam says value your wealth and Bitcoin keep your coin off centralized services and you know you should be you should be good strong hand people all right I want to bring up some vilification of Bitcoin that might be coming up you know we were that was kind of referred to in the tweets that I read before the government's like to make it seem like it's for criminals or some people in the government do unfortunately we've all heard the news that would happen in New Zealand which was horrifying and and the guy who did the deed down there he had a manifesto and in the in the manifesto it says I worked for a short time before making some money investing in bit connect then used the money from the investment to travel so if that's true if he was involved in big connect and then he used that whatever his profits from that to travel he probably had to transferring the Bitcoin at one point so I would expect that you're gonna hear I've already heard some crazy things about this people trying to blame all sorts of people and what this crazy guy did they'll try to incorporate Bitcoin it's in this some way so I just want that I wanted to put that out there you know he might have been being obnoxious in his manifesto there were points when he clearly was not telling the truth in the manifesto about certain things but I've got a feeling that this he probably was involved with this bit connect and then you did well because some people did do well it was upon some people upon to do well and then use the money for whatever maybe who knows what they'll be able to connect it to eventually I'm going to put that out there and I don't know if the panel members of any thoughts on this at all let anyone chime in that's that that's a good that's a good way of putting it but again I again a warning the people though I would not be surprised the mainstream media likes to conflate and confuse a lot of things out there and well I will say one quick thing Adam they've already doing that right so there's been a bit connect sort of documentary in Australia already that's been released from a local news station or whatever and of course they absolutely intertwined a big connect in Bitcoin like crazy you know towards the end they're like are you gonna be investing in any more of these crypto like bit Connect Bitcoin you know and so they did they just the guy that the interview guy has has no clue but Kirk though and he absolutely interchanged them repeatedly so this is our I mean already begun the but but to me it's a bit of a weak plate remember they're gonna do everything they can so of course they're gonna do this but it's overall I think it is a bit of a weak temporary play yeah yeah I guess all I would say is I don't want to sound too crazy but if you think that it's insane that this stuff like this could happen and governments could actually be doing it to change the narrative you have to go back at least 50 years because that's when things start getting Declassified so we know we know a lot of stuff about the Gulf of Tonkin like there's all kinds of really crazy stuff that you know when I was a kid it was only the dude that was smoking pot in his van with pirate radio that was saying oh yeah I dude the Gulf of Tonkin that was that was a false flag right and now it's all been declassified we all we all know so what I always tell people to do is there's a great book on the Lusitania it's called the Lusitania but if you just look into the history of that that's far enough back in history where it's very easy to understand that the US government worked with the British government to kill hundreds of US citizens in order to justify support in World War one and World War one killed a lot of people and resulted in World War two and our whole world has been affected by this that was that was a US government operation there's no question about it nobody knows this but it's all very well I mean it's it's like one of those things that nobody nobody knows because it's far enough back in history but it's not far enough it's not that nobody knows it because the data isn't out there right one of the reasons that we know this is that the Germans wanted to put in all the US newspapers don't get on the Lusitania because the Lusitania is actually carrying arms and cargo and we're gonna blow it up right and the US government ran around and took it out of all the newspapers this is like a very well-established historical fact so that US citizens would be on the boat so that it would get attacked by the Germans and sank so that it would justify support for getting in the war and if you're if you want something more recent I mean you can look at the gas attacks in Syria we know that that was a hoax now right getting off topic your little veggie I don't want people what happened down there happened down there yeah oh well I'm not saying that your I think you're about to hit an 11 we're about to get into 911 if we don't know I just brought it up because I'm bringing it back may I give you 30 more seconds and over here we get to people you gotta bring it to me all right so point is we don't know all I'm saying is we don't know what the guy's motivation was I'm not saying that it didn't happen I'm not pulling an Alex Jones with Sandy Hook or whatever what I'm saying is there's a lot of unknowns about that but that narrative can be used effectively to vilify stuff like Bitcoin and the point is we're not good at that sort of stuff right like people that build people that want to make the world better we're not good at either manipulating narratives or just outright creating them out of thin air to deceive large populations but there are people that are really good at it so this is my argument for we shouldn't be focused on education we shouldn't be focused on propaganda either the positive version or the negative version of it we should be focused on building tools because no matter how much they've tried to vilify a Bitcoin it's a tool it's useful it works it solves a lot of problems so if we just keep focused on what we're actually good at we will make the world a better place regardless of the crazies and the people that manipulate and use the crazies to try to make the world worse all right let's move on to Marty bet and ask him about the Jack Dorsey interview that he conducted legendary stuff Jack Dorsey is making his way around the internet and it seems like a public-relations tour but he is talking to people which is awesome so what did you get out of the video out of the interview Marty behind the scenes stuff that is he a genuinely nice guy is he is this part of a public relations tour what's what's going on that was a fun experience of my interview was there was 31 minutes in total I think we were in the same room for maybe 35 or 36 minutes so it was real quick in and out buddy I was gonna be nicer I got the I don't know I can't speak for the rest of this my conversation with him I got the vibe that there's a little safer punk in them that wants to come out but that being said obviously there's kind of shit going on with Twitter and um he obviously is going on this this podcasting tour too so I I mean call it a PR tour whatever it seems like he's putting himself out there pretty vulnerable situations like going on Joe Rogan with the with Tim Poole I thought that was pretty gutsy I think I'd see any other CEOs doing that that said he's got a lot of a lot of heavy problems to deal with Tim I mean running this powerful communication tool in the world I can imagine is pretty burdensome so yeah man he's just going around bye-bye God he told me I'm asking a lot of questions right now I'm trying to talk to a lot of people and I think Bitcoin being sort of an open system and distributed system really fascinates him and maybe the lack of control he has on it obviously was squared Kashyap in his involvement that it's got an incentive to pump it as well and there's investment in lightning but that do you think he's in it I got the vibe he's in a fur for Internet ideals and philosophical reasons not just monetary gain so do you foresee him incorporating it into Twitter uh I don't know on the product team when he said it on Stephan's well he said cash at me implementing and square may implement no no no see you know both companies it wouldn't surprise me if he was able to make it happen in the future and the one thing that I think some people worry about he seems to be a Bitcoin maximalist teehed he's basically said so but do you think he could incorporate other all coins into his products in the future I mean I think it's possible we've seen it happen with other companies in the past but it seems at this point in time his pre dead set on focusing on Bitcoin and perfecting that experience in use case first it seems as though he gets sort of the monetary economics behind it and sort of protocol economics of this stuff coalescing most likely on the one or a few protocols so I think I like in the space particular that's one thing there's perturbed me about coins made a coin base over the years is they they don't have really good focused they seem bit scatterbrained their product sweet and everything they're doing with square sort of having their POS system and they're sort of merchants business they're able to focus on Bitcoin alone with the cryptocurrency sort of immersion into it and that's something I like to see out of people working with Bitcoin in particulars that they have focused on it cortex and JW do you have any questions for Marty about or any comments about Jack Dorsey I don't like to put anybody out on a pedestal like that but he is he's an opportunity controls a tremendous company and if if it were to incorporate Bitcoin it would be big news it would be it would be I mean III think I think it's tough to judge like a CEO of a big company based on what they're saying right but I will give him some credit that like any CEO of a big company that references the cypherpunks and being a big fan of the cypherpunk movement that is crazy I mean that is insane that's like saying you're a big fan of al-qaeda right like it is it's that socially awkward in my opinion for a CEO of a company to make a reference to Tim May and the movement that he started with the cypherpunks it's a very anti-government movement like it's very anti-government right and he's making reference to that so I got to give him some some credit for shining some light in that direction I think that was pretty epic but more importantly I mean look what he's done with Square and look what he's done with lightning right he's he he is one of the earliest investors into lightning labs and that is a really really big deal right lightning labs is probably the second most important company outside of block stream to Bitcoin and when he was asked on Twitter hey you know what do you guys think about adding an altcoin to cash app is he just said no it was the most epic just beat down of the stupidity of altcoins I think I've seen on Twitter so that's got me pretty much a big fan of the guy and then he's also you know in these interviews I think in Marty's interview you actually made reference to the fact that eventually data is going to exist forever right and I think this is sort of an oblique way of saying look Twitter is going to be reaaargh connected in such a way that we don't do censorship which is a pretty pretty big thing right where he's saying like hey it's going to exist forever it's not going to even be technically possible for us to delete it at some point in the future when we get this right so you know will enable filters that you can opt-in and opt-out of that's pretty much as as good as I can expect from anybody and we got to remember he's in a really tight spot and it's not like he can just make decisions right there he's gonna board and he's got all these other stuff going on so based on all that I I can't say that I'm not a fan of him at this point but if he keeps funding lightning I really don't care what he says as long as he keeps funding lightning and making it really easy to buy Bitcoin that's what that's what matters as far as I'm concerned with that dude vortex any thoughts yeah I mean I was gonna say I mean a lot of what JW said already I mean this this guy found the internet very very young he found the cypher punk movement very young you know he has never been a fan of Authority like now he's not completely anti-government or anything like that but this guy is not a fan of Authority he builds tools that enables people to be more powerful I mean just look what he's built he's built Twitter right he allows any person to be you know it says have their word out there there's millions and millions of people right he built cat he built um Square which allows anybody to be it to easily you know accept money for something you know whether that's as small as washing somebody's car right or something is huge is like a big conference it it doesn't matter you can still use it for those purposes and then look at cash app he enabled he made it easy for people to buy bitcoins so you know Twitter the internet Bitcoin these things all coalesce into this into this movement of this information age of empowering the individual of giving the individual literally the power that governments had just a couple decades ago and this is not going to stop or slow down we're going to continue to get more powerful to the point to where of course everybody is going to be their own nation-state at some point like that's that's far far in the future but this is this is where we're headed and goes hand-in-hand with information like not being able to be deleted when you're in this information age and this is the age of transparency that we're going to be going into in these next couple of decades like it's not going to be a problem people are will want this because all of the the negativity and a lot of the you know the shadow government all this kind of stuff you know a lot of this bad stuff usually hides in secrecy like that's their most powerful weapon is secrecy and when you have an Information Age like there's nowhere that you can hide from the light essentially like everybody's bad you know laundry is going to eventually come out and so this is this is this is what makes this so powerful and so important because it allows in these technologies that Jack builds and other people build for the internet and the Internet itself allows the good guys to fight back and this is exactly what we're seeing so we see him invest in things like lightning labs this that he sees what this shows to me is that he sees that this the big picture he sees the long game he sees this thing playing out over decades he sees that okay look we currently clearly obviously have only seven transactions a second that's only enough for a base settlement layer that's not gonna be enough for a medium of exchange so he thought about lightning this shows and of course his responses to the out points it shows that he's not short-sighted about this he's actually thinking long term and when you go back to his history about what he's learned and what he's you know what do you what he favors and the things that interest him it all comes back to a classic cipher Punk type of person and so he's going to absolutely win over people like myself and JW and others that think along the same lines and so we absolutely have to give him credit absolutely have to give him credit for for the work that he's done and especially now the work that he's doing in Bitcoin it's going to be very very important excellent all right we were going to talk about coinbase I'll talk about them while my sunday shows remember I do a new show here every single day yeah they sent out an email like saying convert your Bitcoin into all these other off coins it's just encouraging anyway we'll talk about that on another day because it's a hashtag base okay well yes all right so moving on let's wrap up the show we will start with and JW you can you've told me about your 10 hours of Bitcoin calm right what's that about and is it did anything was anything left off of the show that you wanted to add on any news items no no news items but yeah I released this site with with a couple other guys Rollo and and actually heavily-armed clown who's over on DC TV is administering it too but basically if you go to 10 hours of Bitcoin comm the idea is that it is the first 10 hours that you should spend to figure out what the heck's happening with Bitcoin within that 10 hours we can't do it unless right we can't do in an hour and we don't expect people to invest a hundred hours into figuring out Bitcoin and economics and all of the things that are related to it but ten hours is a reasonable amount of time to where you can go from basically zero get a good introduction from the Bitcoin standard and then work your way through lightning and simplicity and all of the other stuff that's coming in the future as well as getting really the economic knowledge that you need to understand what money is why it matters why why money has to be one thing right like most people listening to me right they're like ah now we're gonna have all these competing currencies forever that's why I'm investing in all these crap coins it's gonna be great no if you understand economics you you understand what money is it has to be one thing I can't make an argument for that now but if you put in the 10 hours that's required to go through that material at the end of it you'll be able to explain to me why it's a winner-take-all situation so check it out it's definitely a good free resource and even if you're an OG Bitcoin or peruse through and see if there's a talk that you missed or something you haven't seen because it's it's all stuff that's highly curated and valuable awesome that is link to below all these guys links are linked in below vortex what are your final thoughts anything that was left off that you wanted to talk about any thing you're working on plug away no I just I'll just plug my you know my Twitter account that's what I do that's where I spend the majority of my time I have other things that I'm that I'm doing that I'm going on right now but it's a it's all behind the scenes so mostly right now I just plug my youtube channel the crypto caste Network over there we do new shows there every week of course so lots of great shows on there like Bitcoin matters which is from Beauty on which is one of the a great Bitcoin community member lots of great knowledge and information that guy drops and he has a very very he speaks way better than me wait wait wait better than me I'm not a great speaker but I tell you he can absolutely define and discuss Bitcoin with just just so clearly that you understand it really really easily so I recommend checking out that shell dick what matters that's on the crypto cast Network YouTube channel and then you can find me on Twitter at the one of vortex all spelled out at the one more Tex yes it's linked to below okay Marty we're gonna let you as the East Coaster on the on the panel have the final word anything you wanted to add anything that was left out you could talk about your podcast anything yeah no yeah thanks again for having me on it's always a fun time Adam yeah Tales from the Crypt is the podcast I host do an interview series and then rabbit hole recap with Matt Odell once a week so definitely check that out at TF TC 21 on Twitter and then I'm on twitter at Marty Ben I read daily newsletter so sign up for that as well if you want me to ship excuse me if you want to get my thoughts to your inbox every morning and then yeah I think one topic that we didn't cover really on the top of my mind this week was sort of the I mean these are vulnerabilities that we all have known about or know possible attacks against hardware wallets but it was just brought to the forefront again after the MIT Bitcoin Expo with the hardware while it sort of hacks that can happen nobody's a risk unless somebody has physical access to your device or if you get supply chain attack but it's just a healthy reminder is like the node of risk of know the risks exist when you're taking custody of your you TX is in your own hands staying on top of that and sort of knowing what's going on just be aware yet those attacks involved like someone physically getting a hold of your Tresor so you know don't panic people don't don't let some stranger hold your Tresor either but there were some pretty freakish attacks too I mean you had to like break into it yeah it's very intricate but it's just a reminder make sure you have possession of your shit and really the best thing you can do is just get education right just be learn how to run your own full node you know get it get a simple laptop NOC don't connect it to the internet run your own full node and you know with your own Bitcoin core wallet on there and then you know you'll be fine you don't have what you won't have to worry about all these different updates that they do to the Tetris or to ledger to all these things because member there's there's so many so many ways that these things can be at risk so they they constantly do updates every you know every couple months there's a new update and if you own a treasure or a ledger no you have to be you have to be on top of these updates to keep your device secure but of course if you just run your own Bitcoin core wallet in your own full node on a your own laptop you know then then you're good to go you don't actually have to worry about I didn't hear that so but yeah just be very careful people if you're gonna run those hardware wallets and and also they're gonna make it easier to run your own full node right now you know you say just run your own full node it's not that it's not that easy so that's well yeah it with peers node launcher I beg to differ it's get easier last weekend it's very easy if you literally just double click it Adam and and and it pretty much does everything but good that's good for hot wallet stuff right if you're accepting transactions and you're sending transactions but if you're just if you're just holding you know fifteen thousand dollars with a Bitcoin or something you don't want to have that in a hot wallet at all you don't want to have that on a hardware wallet and in my opinion the best place to go to is write down your seed words on pen and paper make sure there's multiple copies in case there's a flood or a fire and you know don't don't keep your keys on the hardware wallet because hardware is always going to be hackable we've never in all of history come up with a hardware device I mean that's one of the reasons I wasn't I was so skeptical of Bitcoin wasn't that it was unhackable right but we've never come up with a hardware device where if I hand it to you or I hand it to a bad guy and they can't find a way in it's just a matter of time and effort if somebody collects a bunch of these then they can justify that electron microscopes and all the crazy stuff that might be involved to get to it so don't get overconfident in these hardware wallets they're better than a cellphone wallet but they're not as good as paper that's that's actually physically secured and really uh sorry sorry adding one more last thing the only Harbor Walt that I'd probably ever recommend would be the cold card wallet because that actually is literally never ever ever going to be ever connected to the Internet it actually is cold that's what we call it the cold card wallet so something like that might be obviously it's more difficult to use than to Tresor but it is such an awesome awesome cyberpunk device alright people don't panic they're safe don't keep your coins on coinbase or a third party because this if if you're if you're up to keeping your coins on a third party site learn the treasurer okay just yeah there's different levels got a different experience level everyone's technically skilled a certain way but you really want to get it to a level where you're not dependent on the third party that that's the most important thing and then it gets more complex as we move on and it gets to the trace mayor level and again trace mayor does his thing his way don't panic that you can't do that don't don't pack that you can't do XY and so you just get into the safest that you can level you can get it to all right we only talked some bullets there at the end okay that's it dudes it was a great show it was great to have this all-star cast in the house it's it's nice to be back in the USA remember I do a new show every day no matter where I am even when I'm on a plane there was a show that came out I had it all planned out but yeah tomorrow's the Beyond Bitcoin show we'll do this show again next Friday and every other day is the one Bitcoin show you never know what you're gonna get here you never know what guess is gonna be on i'm adam meister I'm bitcoin meister the disrupt meister remember subscribe the channel like this video share this video pound that like button bang that bell bun thank you guests again disrupt meister calm shabbat shalom i will see you guys tomorrow bye bye
