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There are no fees Other exchanges charge fees, okcoin allows you to keep 100% of the rewards Sign up with okcoin, link in the description – Hey everybody, welcome back to the Thinking Crypto Channel With me today is Warren Paul Anderson, who's the VP of Product at Discreet Labs
Warren, great to be chatting with you – Yeah, great to be on the show – Warren, I wanted to speak with you as I was mentioning since you were at Ripple So let's start with your background where you're from, where did you grow up? – So I grew up in Southern California and as a classic sea I'm a California surfer boy at heart I learned to surf before I could ride a bike
And that was just the way things how we do it in the family But crypto markets kind of taken me all over the world and I've lived in a number of different places and so so-called California at homes, so I'm based in the bay area, and yeah – What did you do before working at Discreet Labs? And maybe I know part of that is Ripple, but there's other places you've worked at Maybe you can give us a timeline and especially what you did at Ripple as well – Yeah, sure, so I got into crypto, this is a classic like story where you have a hobby and you parlay your hobby into a full-time not just a full-time job, but an actual career
So I got started actually mining Bitcoin back in 2011, when you could still mine on a CPU And I just found a link to the Bitcoin white paper on Twitter, read through it like a half a dozen times, download Bitcoin QT client started doing some mining back then the network wasn't as stable So the miners weren't always running full time And it did that on a part-time basis for like a couple of years And then I had just shut down a startup that was running and decided, hey, this Bitcoin thing's really taken off
There's some legitimate entrepreneurs in the space starting to see venture capital entering in And so I kind of decided why don't I stake my career on this thing and see where it goes So I was living in Boston at the time, moved out, back out to California and raised a sea round from Tim Draper and Mark Benioff to build a essentially OTC derivatives platform using Bitcoin block at core Bitcoin blockchain, actually Bitcoin script so, it was an actual smart contract that would allow minors to be able to hedge, their Bitcoin and institutional investors would be on the other side, KYC of course And they would take out the downside risks So it was really kind of the first platform
a theorem had was just getting started We looked at to kind of doing a platform migration onto it there was just too unstable at the time In fact, I think metallic at the time said, don't put real money on this So we stuck the course with Bitcoin, working in Bitcoin script is a little more difficult It's not as expressive as a language so we did our thing and built some traction there
We ended up actually selling the platform to a company called Wire, which at the time was also running an OTC, vertical in their company And then I moved over to join Ripple, which as a Bitcoiner was I got a lot of interesting emails, from my Bitcoin friends joining Ripple, but Ripple at the time was to me, I thought was really interesting technology They took a kind of a contrarian view to the, there wasn't a traditional alt coin, like a fork of Bitcoin It was actually a completely different build, they were one of the first to introduce the account-based model they had an actual decentralized exchange running on the protocol
And I also heard a rumor that the Telec had spent some time as a Ripple intern and learned a lot from the core cryptographers there, so I wanted to experience what that was And I thought we could do a lot of work to help kind of further decentralize the platform and build some interesting protocols And that's pretty much what I did for four and a half years at Ripple Worked a lot on the open source code and that they have lots of different open source projects And then also created one of their enterprise products, which is one of their flagship products called on-demand liquidity
So kind of uses the cryptocurrency as a bridge to do cross border payments So yeah, we had had an amazing run there still real connected with the team and rooting for them on the sidelines – Wow, man, you are an OG, I mean, your mining went back then, you had a startup, you portray your point and maybe version 10, DeFi on the Bitcoin blockchain You got to invest in from Tim Draper, that's so cool, I didn't know all these details
So I have to ask the Bitcoin that you mine, do you still have it, what do you have in your portfolio? – That's a really good question So I do still hold Bitcoin I'm a long on Bitcoin I think at the time, people weren't as careful with their storage of Bitcoin Unfortunately I did lose some in a wallet that was not properly managed, I would say, and I still, yeah, but I won't go into those details, but it's kind of a cautionary tale of make sure that your keys are secure and accessible and be careful, with what wallets you use, because there could be a lot of loss there, but lesson learned – So do you have XRP in your portfolio, anything else? – Yeah, yeah, definitely still holding XRP I've been in crypto space for so long and I'm so interested in all these projects
I tried to kind of get involved at least if I can't really get deep into the technical, I like to acquire some here and there, just so I can stay up to date with the project I always think of like the the Samuel Jackson what's in your wallet if everyone kind of walked around with the a t-shirt saying, the percentages of their, I think people would understand more of where people are coming from So, but I try to be pretty distributed with the allocation So I'm not overly long on any particular project, I'm just long on the crypto industry as an asset class in general – Sure, so let's talk about discrete labs, give us an overview, what are the services, what are you guys doing there? And what's your job as far as your day to day there? – Yeah, so Discreet Labs is a blockchain research and development company, we've got about 60 people spread across North America, Europe, and Asia
And so it's a very distributed team and we're primarily working on developing the Findora blockchain, which is a blockchain with programmable privacy We also work with enterprise institutions and kind of do a lot of handholding to introduce them to blockchain and cryptocurrency The fact that Findora is a public blockchain with programmable privacy is interesting from a traditional financial perspective, because a big reason why they run a private ledgers is because they want the privacy And so introducing a public blockchain, which has all the security benefits of decentralization and immutability starts to kind of, they start to unwind a little bit, some of their assumptions around public block chains So we've been working with financial institutions around that case and starting to introduce hopefully more liquidity kind of into the public blockchain market
– So for those who are listening and saying, well, hey, there's so many block chains out there and then Ripple has the XRP ledger and there's the Theorem and it's a Salon and whatever, how, where does Findora fit in, in a sense of maybe, can you tell us about a real world application? Like some institution, how would they use the blockchain? – Yeah, sure, so, yeah, so Findora is classically if you were to split it into verticals, more of a privacy blockchain, and then how we differentiate within the privacy block chains is through the actual programmability So some people have called it like, I think someone said it's a more ethical Monero Some people have said it's a more programmable Monero or more programmable Z cash, but the Findora supports the ability to issue actual private tokens So similar to like an ERC 20 standard So you can actually issue for instance, stable coins that have more privacy where the balance and the transaction amount is mass
And that might be interesting for someone that's, wanting to do a partnership with someone like visa that has real users And those users don't really want their balances to appear on a radically transparent blockchain So giving them more privacy to be able to transact and hold balances and spend their money without knowing that the entire world can kind of do some mapping and some network analysis and figure out how much money they're spending, how much money they're making and all kinds of things So we really think that the privacy kind of initiative is starting to build more back into crypto And it kind of goes back to the old, like cypherpunk manifesto of supporting more privacy in an open digital society
So we wanna kind of bring that back in and marry the block chains, public block chains with more privacy, but payments is obviously a big use case And then you kind of take it from there, we're starting to introduce more programmability to support more DeFi platforms and also doing more cross chain interoperability with some of those platforms through liquidity bridges – Got it, so if you had a visa adopts Findora or a JP Morgan, whatever, somebody banks and they wanted to transact with each other, they could create a private chain so to speak on the Findora blockchain and transact issue a unique token, call it whatever they want and transact in that way? – Yeah, they actually wouldn't even have to create a private chain within Findora They could just run it directly on Findora and they I've seen various different stable coin providers, that they're supporting multiple networks like tether, USCC being two examples You can imagine them actually supporting those tokens directly on Findora and then working with the end users that are using those tokens to transact privately on Findora
– And does Findora have its own token, and so can you tell us about that? – Yeah, so Findora, so under the hood Findora uses Tendermint for consensus So the original model, we were gonna introduce a novel consensus mechanism, but we realized that when it comes to consensus, you kind of want something that's battle-hardened that has, survived the test of time and that you can also inherit a lot of the scalability and performance of something like that in Tendermint was just because of its modular infrastructure, we decided to go with Tendermint, we love the team there and really respect what they do and so we implemented Tendermint in rust and we're working on that And then starting to kind of build more from there and the actual transactions can be done either transparently or privately very similar to what you see on a Z cash And then kind of building from there is kind of, how we do the actual privacy is we use a combination of zero knowledge proofs and multi-party computation, which are kind of two fringe technologies that are really starting to kind of become more adopted, particularly in blockchain networks Classical, you see a lot of zero-knowledge proofs being used for scalability right now, because it's able to kind of compress a lot of the blockchain kind of state or data into a very succinct form and then make those off of those as proofs
So that's really good for scalability, but it's also really good for privacy 'cause you can do the same thing – I don't know if you mentioned this and I apologize if I miss it What type of protocol is the, is it like proof of work, proof of stake? – Well, that's a good question So we have, right now it's running, we have a main net beta that was released in at the end of March and we call it a beta because it's just a stripped down version of with some core features, the ability to do private transactions, public transactions and then issue public and private assets That's running in a kind of a classic PBFT on Tendermint
We have staking on Testnet that we're currently running And that's the classic kind of proof of stake with staking and delegation, and also slashing for making sure that the validators are actually running how they supposed to So staking and proof of stake is kind of an interesting new paradigm for me working in crypto, I have been very impressed with how staking is able to kind of curate more of a community because you start to see projects that have aligned incentives with the success of the underlying blockchain And that really helps to build more and more ecosystems in a faster rate so we're starting to see that happen – And what are your statistics as it relates to transactions per seconds and scaling and things like that
– Yeah, we haven't publish any benchmark transaction per second, the performance metrics tend to sometimes be what I call vanity metrics It's like, who can be higher? I take performance testing very seriously And I think that we wanna be diligent in that however, we do inherit a lot of the scalability of Tendermint, so some of the other networks that have been around longer that have been running Tendermint for instance, cosmos, we will be able to scale to at least what cosmos offers One interesting thing about Findora is it's actually a UTXO model So we, the reason why it's UTXO model is because it lends itself better to supporting privacy at that layer one with UTXOs we expect the combination of a UTXO format with Tendermint
We will probably get some pretty good scalability and performance out of that, but we haven't gone and actually run any benchmark testing yet I think we're still in the stability phase where we wanna achieve more stability, and then performance kind of comes once you've reached that kind of initial set of stability – Absolutely, who is your target, I know we touched a bit about institutions, but who are like your target clientele, is it like banks, financial institutions, corporates And do you have any partnerships that you can highlight? – Yeah, so we kind of a dual phase approach So we have both like a grassroots kind of bottoms up approach where we're working with a variety of different DeFi ecosystems, building out liquidity bridges to those ecosystems, supporting those networks through, more kind of cross chain interoperability
And then we're also kind of working on a more top-down approach where we're actually engaging with the C-suites at some of these financial institutions kind of walking them through the model, it's a slower discussion, it requires a lot of patience which I've learned from working at Ripple, and just kind of getting them to dip their toes a little bit, particularly in DeFi, which I think a lot of these financial institutions are sitting on the sidelines, wondering how can they get into this DeFi market, but privacy has been a continuous blocker for them So they can't really jump right in head first because if they start running smart contracts on these block chains, they're going to reveal a lot of competitive intelligence, which is just you ask any banker what their kind of bread and butter is, it's the private ledger, right? So being able to preserve that privacy is really important for these financial institutions – I have to ask is there any conversations going on within you guys and Ripple or no, it's the things that can work together or dovetail or anything along those lines? – Nothing official I still have a lot of friends there and great colleagues and colleagues that have turned into friends And I think that the projects may at some point come together in an interesting way to collaborate, but nothing concrete – So what's on the roadmap for you guys for the remainder 2021 into 2022
– Yeah, so roadmaps are tough when you're working on like a decentralized blockchain technology with a diverse set of teams that are scattered all over the world because no one team can really kind of dictate, in my opinion what the roadmap is, but some of the classic kind of pillars that we're looking to build is introducing more transactional privacy What that means is actually introducing more anonymity with the actual core transaction so right now you can mask account balances and transaction amounts, but we don't so like to be able to do something called triple masking, which actually can hide the actual sender receiver So it's a fully more fully anonymous transaction And then to parlay that people say, well, anonymous transactions are dangerous and it could introduce a lot of nefarious activity One thing that that zero knowledge proof allow for is what we call selective disclosure agreement
So basically being able to selectively disclose transaction history, transaction amounts senders, receivers to authorities, to auditors if you're in exchange and you have to submit audits every year, being able to disclose that information is really important So we call it sensible privacy, being able to support that kind of privacy use case, but also have the auditability that you would in a transparent blockchain So there's a big difference between privacy and secrecy privacy meaning you don't want the world to know what's going on Secrecy is you don't want anyone to know So we are a privacy network, not a secret network
It's a much different distinction So there's a lot around that, another thing, is introducing more programmability to the blockchain So, and introducing some interesting things around privacy right now it's actually, there hasn't been a layer one blockchain that has introduced privacy and confidential, smart contracts that are not, they don't require a trusted hardware, or what they call secure enclaves We think that's a really, really good kind of north star to build towards And then also beyond that privacy also enables itself really well to identity
So introducing self-sovereign identity, into the blockchain itself so that things like, reducing the costs of collateral in DeFi markets, by starting to introduce things like credit scoring or that can be done in a programmable way where the user controls, what information that can reveal to certain credit agencies, the cost of capital So those are the things that really are required, I think to get crypto into more mainstream adoption where people can actually transact privately, but also securely and in a way that isn't hurting anyone – Yeah, absolutely, and to your point, it sounds like with secrecy and privacy, it's not a full on anonymity because you have to comply with KYC AML laws And I'm sure these institutions that are looking to work with you or adopt your technology will have to comply there So I just, the question escaped me that I was gonna ask you around the KYC AML, but maybe it'll come back later, but anything else that users should know about Findora that we didn't touch on yet? – Well, just real quick on the KYC AML point, we do think that there should be tools available for applications like exchanges and wallets to be able to do KYC that's enforced kind of by the protocol standard
So not actually having the protocol do KYC itself, but actually providing tools through what we call proofs, the zero-knowledge proofs, so a great example is with the zeros knows proof, you can actually prove that you are 21 or over, without actually revealing what your actual ages And that's nice because traditionally we have to just upload or take a screenshot of our ID or something, but that reveals a lot of information that isn't actually useful or, for what they need to do So being able to be very succinct in which, what information you're able to reveal we think is really powerful, and it will allow the whole process and user experience around crypto be improved – Yeah, absolutely, I could see a lot of institutions and folks wanting to use a technology like this, because it's a best of both worlds, right And its become so compliant with the laws as well, because of course they can't use Monero
(laughs) – (laughs) Well, they can, but it's definitely, there's some risk, but yeah I mean, Monero team has done a phenomenal job Like we're really kind of holding the privacy flag and making sure that the crypto industry is still kind of has privacy as a tier one kind of a priority, but yeah, there's risks in every network, so – Absolutely, so speaking of the crypto market, what are your thoughts on, where we're at right now? Some are saying we they were saying we were in a bear markets, so saying we're in a bull market, seems like Bitcoin may do a double peak, what are your thoughts? – Yeah, it's crazy because I've been in the market for a long time, I've seen the bull runs, I've seen the bear markets, the crypto winters and these are definitely crazy right now there's a lot of just a lot more of everything that's going on, which I think is good There's the introduction now of NFTs, and every kind of bull ride, I think there's a new type of asset that comes out prior to this, it was the ICO's, before that it was just kind of classic kind of crypto so, it's every kind of new bull ride, I think brings more and more into the network which is good
But who knows what will happen if I had a magic ball, I would probably still get it wrong(laughs) It's a fickle market and who knows what will happen, but I'm in it for the long haul The markets itself, it's a roller coaster, but I've got the stomach of a very seasoned veteran, that's written a lot of roller coasters So it's just about making sure that the teams in the ecosystem are not scared away by any kind of volatility movement It's just kind of make sure you're focused on building out good technology, that's purposeful, and that's useful for people, and everything else will kind of figure itself out
– Absolutely, so I have to ask, do you have a Bitcoin price prediction? Let's say the bull market continues do you have a price prediction? (laughs) – I don't, I really don't, I feel like I said, I've been in the market for a long time, and I remember in 2014, 13 or 14, someone said, Bitcoin might be worth $10,000 in 10 years And I remember thinking that's crazy, (laughs) like me, 10,000 in 10 years, I don't know about that I think it happened in a lot less than 10 years, so anyone that has price predictions, I think they are doing one of these and there's no real, analytical rigor that's gonna go to supporting that, I see the candles, I see the marks, I see the technical analysis and yeah, if anyone's accurate about that, send them my way and maybe we'll have a conversation – Well, I think we're certainly seeing it, like you said, there's a lot more activity happening El Salvador is gonna make Bitcoin illegal tender next month, which is around the corner
We see corporates putting Bitcoin in your balance sheet, Bitcoin mining, booming in the United States, what are your thoughts being an OG, you were mining on your computer back in the day and how far things have come – Yeah, it's real wild, and to some degree, I think that it's come full circle a little bit, early days actually, there was a, I think there were probably more Bitcoin miners in north America than anywhere else in the world And then a few like enterprising entrepreneurs in particularly in China, kind of figured out a way to mine Bitcoin on the cheap, and the market kind of shifted there We're starting to see some of that shift back, but the economics I'm a big proponent of trying to use many, renewable resources possible on the proof of work stuff I think some of the markets kind of shifting away from proof of work, just from a scalability standpoint, I think it's healthy
I think there should be, more consensus mechanisms that are tested and that provide really strong techonomics security and guarantees, but yeah, it's a wild ride One particular thing I like to see as the amount of developers that are entering into the network So that's a metric that I like to try to track because developers are the creators in the system and they're the ones that are going to drive a lot of the innovation and better user experience, to support more mainstream adoption And then the amount of developer activity has just boomed in the last couple of years, which I'm really, really happy to see I think we're still far away, there's 20, I think there's just over 20 million developers all over the world
And there's still a small fraction of those developers that have ever even like touched crypto or run a command line in any crypto projects So we've got a long ways to go to attract those developers, so I'm still pretty, pretty, pretty bullish on that prospect – Let's talk about US crypto regulations We're still waiting for comprehensive regulations, there's obviously huge lawsuit against Ripple company you worked at at over XRP, a lot of eyes on it, and we're waiting for the outcome there to see how the SEC may regulate the rest of the crypto market What are your thoughts on the whole situation, especially given that you are at Ripple at one point? – Yeah, it's really clear and I've done a lot of traveling, since I've been in the crypto world and some countries have provided very clear guidance, on what a for instance, how when a developer opens up, a terminal for the first time, what are the rules of the road, right? And those rules are actually good to have, because I think most people are typically wanna stay on the right side of those rules, right? No one wants to like blatantly break rules where the problem is sometimes you're on a road and there's really no speed limit
And so you're kind of looking around, you want to maintain the speed limit, but there are no signs of what the speed limit is And that's a problem because some people can drive faster than others and, but having those kinds of, those limits and those guidelines is really important And I think that's what a little bit of what the US has kind of struggled with is kind of setting those guidelines earlier instead of trying to do something that's going to actually hurt and having kind of knee jerk reactions to some of the market activity So being super sensible about regulation, I think is really healthy for the market, with what Ripple's going on kind of handling right now, I think they're trying to help set that what those lines are, so they can help define it for the rest of the industry And I think it's healthy, I think it's generally, we need to make sure that there's, consumers are protected and that the downside risks are kind of managed and the upside is fair
And, but there's always gonna be those countries that just say come here you can do whatever you want and people will come And then some of those citizens make it, might get hurt So it's really, it's a tough thing, I think regulators have a very challenging job because it's a new technology, it's a new asset class, there's so many new things about crypto that they have to kind of wrap their heads around In 2014, I remember explaining kind of what blockchain is now it's more like all the regulars know what blockchain is can actually can decipher the different types of it, actually getting the technical details So I've been very impressed with how much has been learned in over the course of the year, but definitely need more guidance to help these entrepreneurs and these creators to build useful things that don't go the wrong way of the regulatory regulations
– Yeah, for sure, and my hope is that we can get that clarity soon And I know there's talks of like companies looking to leave the United States as a result, if things are moving forward to hopefully Congress can step in and maybe pass a law that would bring that clarity Let's talk about NFTs, there seem to be a boom in the market Some may call it a bubble, visa just bought a crypto punk It seems like corporates and institutions are getting involved, what are your thoughts? Do you own any NFTs, maybe Findora, are you guys getting involved in any way with NFTs? – So on the last question, so you actually can issue a NFTs on Findora
We haven't really published any guides on step-by-step on how to do that But the interesting thing is you can actually issue NFTs in a private manner so a lot of auctions in the art world are done very privately, collectors tend to be very private I think the NFT crowds the exact opposite They like to not only by their NFTs, but showcase like how much they paid for that NFTs And, but I think the NFT space is definitely here to stay the models that it creates and to help empower artists and creators, I think is really powerful, not just that, but also intellectual property
So shifting from pieces of paper in a drawer to actually having these actually issued on block chains and secured and an amount of that that can be protected, I think is a total paradigm shift, it's gonna really change the game, and it's really important There's a lot of hype in the NFT role, I think around some of these I've, I'm still trying to wrap my head around, paying over a million dollars for a rock, but some people just where they wanna do that to kind of showcase that this thing is cool It's also attracting a lot of more mainstream, I think people can grapple like a piece of content, like an NFT, much more than they can a core cryptocurrency So, and the only way you can actually buy an NFTs is using cryptocurrency, so it's actually introducing more and more mainstream adoption through the onboard onboarding of crypto So it's gonna be a wild time, I think it's, I'm looking forward to seeing what happens, but even the membership model where with an NFT you actually get membership to exclusive communities, I think is also an interesting trend, we hear the word meta verse a lot, I think it's already been played out now that Facebook talking about it, but having a digital, like online digital community is the future, and being able to get exclusive access to those communities with NFTs is super interesting
I particularly like what the board API club has done in using the real world example of a yacht club, which is probably the most exclusive type of organization you can join, but they're having a blast, I think it's awesome, the work they're doing they've made a lot of money, which good for them they deserve it So, but that model is actually probably the most interesting thing about it It's not necessarily the art or anything else, it's the actual model of being able to introduce into an exclusive community – Yeah, it's pretty interesting what's happening So do you own any NFTs by any chance? – Yeah, dabble NFT it's so hard, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the rarity aspect and trying to kind of compute of like, what is rare, how do you determine what's rare, I think we need like more tools to help us kind of figure that out because a chat with a lot of my friends and they're kind of getting into it now I feel like I'm not doing it right
(laughs) It's like, I got this thing and I'm not sure what's going on but it's fun, I always encourage people to get involved, just obviously don't spend anything you can't afford to lose, but it's just a fun thing that I think that this holiday season, and you're gonna probably see a lot of NFT gifting going around the family table instead of in the previous years it was all, yeah, here's your ledger, pre-installed with cryptocurrency now it's gonna be, I bought you an NFT for Christmas (both laugh) – Oh, man, I don't know if I'm ready for that, but we'll see I guess the stories will come out for people gifting NFTs, cool As far as CBDC and central bank issuing their tokenized version of their Fiat currencies, what are your thoughts on that? And could Findora potentially be a great blockchain for them to issue digital? – Yeah, definitely So you have to kind of think about like a CBDC issued on a private network is effectively just digital fiat and that kind of already exists like everywhere, right, most people have account balances at banks and they have some people have cash, gold, whatever, but that digital form of Fiat is kind of in its sense, a form of a CBDC, you have layers with the actual depending on the central bank structure And they these banks have accounts with the central banks, but the model itself isn't really that useful unless you actually have the properties of an actual public blockchain decentralization, immutability less trust
So one way that a potential use case, for CBDC on Findora is being able to again, issue a CBDC in a private manner, you being able to control the actual supply and actually adjust it programmatically to reflect kind of the demand and supply in the market So monetary policy, monetary theory right now is just usually like a bunch of people in an office or some agreeing on what's going on and then the implementation happens I mean, it took, in 2008 when the market crashed, I think it took over two weeks for all the fed bank to actually report into like how bad the situation was in a market where there's a CBDC issued on a public kind of programmable blockchain that can happen in real time, right So that there can be algorithms that are written and programs that are written that can actually adjust inflation that can adjust supply all that kind of stuff in the market to reflect kind of what's happening So the digital economy kind of needs that, and we're hoping that some of these CBDCs start to kind of adopt more public block chains to do that
But again, privacy is a blocker for them They need more privacy in order to do that – Well, if things progress on your end and you're talking to central banks or whatever it may be, I would love to have you back on to, let's say there's a partnership announcement to discuss that (both laugh) – We'll definitely keep you in mind for sure – For sure, so I wanna wrap it up here with two quick, rapid fire questions, such as what's your favorite food? – Favorite cuisine is Mexican food, definitely Southern California guy I can't get away with that – For sure, favorite musician or band? – Ooh, that's a good one
I have a very eclectic taste in music and I can't really say, but I've had a, as a punk music fan in high school, I got into hip hop, as country, a little bit of country music, I even listened to classical music, I'm all, I'm super confused – I'm the same way I listen to everything, I don't have a particular genre that's – Depends on the mood, right? – Yeah, exactly, favorite movie? – I'm a sucker for Marvel movies what can I say they're too good
They're not very it's not very artistic, but just love a good, good Marvel movie, for sure – Yeah, me too, as a kid who grew up reading comic books X-Men and old Spider-Man, yeah, it was awesome to see those things come on screen now, so that's pretty cool, favorite book? – Favorite book, I love "Snow Crash" I think it was way before its time I've read and re-read it probably a couple of times now, and it's definitely top up, up there – Awesome, and finally, when you're not working at Discreet Labs or on Findora, what are you doing for fun as a hobby? – I surf, I like to surf, it's a good way just to get in the ocean and kind of take off all the stress And I think my team can definitely tell when I haven't surfed in a couple of weeks, cause anxiety and stress level goes up so that like, you got to go surf this weekend, so that's definitely the one thing to do
– I still have to get that off my bucket list, learn how to surf ever since I saw point break as a kid, I wanted to learn how to surf, so(laughs) – Yeah, love Keanu Reeves, that was a good movie – Awesome, Warren, great chatting with you, man, and looking forward to the updates from Findora as things progress and like I said, we'd love to have you back on as maybe partnerships get announced and so forth, but thank you for joining today – Yeah, thanks for having me, it's good (upbeat music)
